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Odium likes 9, 9 Heralds?...


Djarskublar

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I had a passing thought that I don't recall any discussion or WoB about. Is it more than mere coincidence that the number nine is significant in some way to Odium and that nine Heralds left the Oathpact? If there's any RAFO's out there about this I'd like to see them. I've seen lots of discussion about related topics, but not this specifically. If it is the case that there is more going on here, I am at a loss as to what it could be. Maybe Odium could only influence 9 of them at once specifically? That sounds highly unlikely, but it's the only thing I can come up with off the top of my head.

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WoB is that 9 is significant to Braize, which is where Odium is. Not too hard to extrapolate from there, but not confirmed either.

Quote

3. a. Is there more significance to the 10 other planets around the Rosharian start system and them being gaseous? We know that Roshar's moons have unnatural orbits; so there seems to be some astronomical manipulation in the system. 
A. Yes there is significance of 16 in cosmere and 10 in Rosharian system.
3. b. The outer 10 gas giants in the Rosharan system suggest a tie to the number 10 that predates the arrival of the current Shards. Is the prominent numerology we see around the Cosmere an inherent property of the planets, rather than the Shards who invest them? 
A. Big RAFO
3. c. Would Ashyn/Braize share the 10-centric numerology of Roshar?
A. Yes 10-centric is for the entire Rosharian planetary system...wait Braize is 9-centric

 

Edited by dendrophobe
Added exact WoB
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38 minutes ago, dendrophobe said:

WoB is that 9 is significant to Braize, which is where Odium is. Not too hard to extrapolate from there, but not confirmed either.

Never heard of that WoB before, thanks! But then, maybe the number nine is significant because of the Heralds, and not the other way around. I find that more likely, since I doubt that Odium knew beforehand that exactly nine Heralds would survive the battle. 

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Above silence, the illuminating storms—dying storms—illuminate the silence above. 

— Collected on Tanatanev 1173, 18 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was an illiterate Herdazian.

I think this is the most important Death Rattle in wok, and I have noticed that Tanatanev 1173 = 4th day 2nd week 9th month 1173 = 9th day 9th month 1173 (since there are five days a week in Roshar)

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18 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Never heard of that WoB before, thanks! But then, maybe the number nine is significant because of the Heralds, and not the other way around. I find that more likely, since I doubt that Odium knew beforehand that exactly nine Heralds would survive the battle. 

The times that we have seen Brandon mention the significance of numbers, he talks of them on the scale of locations, not events or people. 

16 has cosmere wide significance. 

10 is significant to Roshar. 

9 is significant to Braize. 

If it is a product of the planets, it would predate the Heralds. 

There are also 9 unmade, and they existed prior to the Heralds betrayal. 

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Okay then, @Calderis, put it a different way to avoid any wiggle room from Brandon. Is there something at play beyond mere coincidence that the number 9 is central to Braize and that 9 of the Heralds broke? Is it more than just that there are 10 Heralds because of Roshar, and all but one broke, so if Roshar was 11 centric, how many would have broken? Nine or ten?

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6 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

Okay then, @Calderis, put it a different way to avoid any wiggle room from Brandon. Is there something at play beyond mere coincidence that the number 9 is central to Braize and that 9 of the Heralds broke? Is it more than just that there are 10 Heralds because of Roshar, and all but one broke, so if Roshar was 11 centric, how many would have broken? Nine or ten?

I don't think it's coincidence. The Heralds were held on Braize between desolations after all. If Roshar were 11 centric perhaps Taln wouldn't have been alone. If Braize were 11 centric, maybe they all would have broken and Odium would have been able to send back a Herald of his own. 

I believe that the numbers are tied to the planet, as is the magical focus. All the planets save Scadrial existed pre-shattering, so these properties were designed under Adonalsium using principles we know literally nothing about. 

Speculating on how things would be different is fun, but without any knowledge of the driving forces behind them, I feel it's like asking how a patients symptoms would manifest differently if their virus had followed a different evolutionary path.

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14 minutes ago, FiveLate said:

@Calderis is there a WOB that they were held on Braize?  I see that said all the time, but never knew where it came from?

Not that I'm aware of. Regardless, it's the most reasonable location of the "place of torture."

I'll continue to believe it, but stop stating it as fact. 

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28 minutes ago, FiveLate said:

The problem I have with it is that if Odium is invested there, a full shard should easily overpower a Herald...The most they could be would be a splinter.  But if the torture takes place someplace else, neither could bring full power to bear.

Keep in mind that in Taln's case, Odium decided to wait it out and let humanity get lazy. In the olden days, Desolations occurred much closer together.

We don't actually know if a Desolation starts when one Herald breaks or if it's at least 50% of them(5 heralds). We don't know if he focused them one at a time or if he tortured all 10 at once(which could've divided his power and taken longer). He could be taking his sweet time reveling in the Herald's pain. He may have wanted to keep most of his power to himself in case he were directly attacked by Honor. He could have been distracted by building up his forces for the Desolation, or even delay the Heraldic breaking so that he could rebuild an army to attack with and not be stuck with tattered remnants of the last one.

There are so many variables that Odium's ability to overpower a Herald with ease doesn't mean much in the way of certainties about the situation.

Edited by The One Who Connects
Edit: I do like your idea about the Nexus of Truth though...
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3 minutes ago, FiveLate said:

I don't even think that he confirms their breaking brings the desolation in a definitive manner do to this quote.

Well, I can make it indirectly tied to them breaking if you want an alternative. They know that they have to not be on Roshar in order for a Desolation to end. It follows that them being on Roshar causes one to start, and that they should know that too. Therefore, they want to keep both themselves and Odium away from Roshar.

The torture goes to the point that they snap and worldhop to Roshar to escape it. Odium then lets the rest go because "reasons." In this line of reasoning, they go to/from Roshar and Braize basically in a street with no side-offs. A worldhopping tunnel so to speak, which could also help cope with the weirdness of them being cognitive shadows. The worldhopping tunnel would be a specific channel only accessible via death and rebirth, so that standard worldhopping is available to them(just in case Nalan's acquisition of a certain item doesn't happen where I think it did)

It's a strange viewpoint where they aren't actually trapped by anything other than their own force of will to not let Odium get by them, but it's something beings of Honor would do. Taking a stand to protect others, enduring the pain so others don't have to, it's textbook honorable hero. It's also why they "had to go back" if they didn't die, as it would be a betrayal of what they stood for to abandon the others.

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