KnightofLight Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 Hi everyone! So I'm looking for opinions from my fellow Sanderson fans about the Malazan book of the fallen series. I am looking for another good series I can read in between stormlight releases and have heard good things and bad but Sanderson is my favorite fantasy author so all your opinions are welcome. Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammanas Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) Its one of my favorites and I love it! That being said it is not for everyone. I usually recommend other series to readers before I get to that one. To make a comparison to college classes: if The Hobbit is fantasy level 100 then malazan is level 500 exit level. It is extremely complex and has a lot going on. Many things will not make sense until several books later or upon a reread. If you have read several of the more popular series out there and looking for something different and challenging than go for it! It is a series that no many how many times you reread there will always be discoveries! Edited June 10, 2017 by Ammanas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofLight Posted June 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 Thanks for the info! Yes I heard it was a complex series with a lot of characters and world building but I feel I'm up for the adventure. I already have Gardens of the Moon so I will get into it very soon. Pretty excited 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammanas Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 If you ever feel it is overwhelming than the following link should help. Summary and analyses for every chapter: http://www.tor.com/series/malazan-reread-of-the-fallen/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mestiv he/him Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 Moving this to Entertainment Discussion where this topic belongs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briar King Posted June 11, 2017 Report Share Posted June 11, 2017 It sucks. Don't read that garbage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hood he/him Posted June 11, 2017 Report Share Posted June 11, 2017 It has its strong parts: the tragedies, and the epic convergences, and sometimes even Erikson's philosophy rambling. Its complexity is both its strength and weakness. It is a weakness for a beginner (the magic system, the warrens, book 1). But for a reread, there are very few books like this one. There's a lot of poetry too, but except a bare few, I don't like them anyway. Ultimately, it is upon how you like Books 1 and 2. And yes, after reading Erikson, you may get some disease (at least it was for my case). For some time, you won't like any other fantasy novel, because they are just too simple. WoT book 5 felt so simple and plain in comparison to Malazan, that I got bored by it. It may happen with you, it may not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted June 11, 2017 Report Share Posted June 11, 2017 I can see why the people who like it do, but I didn't. It's character soup, with fairly static characters. I read the first 5 or 6 of them and the few characters that cross over(and there are no consistently seen characters) don't really grow at all. It is a very heavily plot driven story, and it "gritty" to the point that the Dark parts are over the top and seem to exist for shock value rather than content. The plot in the books is truly epic, and if you like dark plot driven stories. You'll probably like it. I prefer character driven stories so... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pestis the Spider she/her Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) Malazan Book of the Fallen is one of the top epic fantasy series ever. It is my personal #1 favourite as well, as it is absolutely massive, filled with great characters and plot lines. It's a real pleasure to read it. And t be honest I find it to be a little like a intricate maze, with so much stuff happening, so much world being described that finally leads to a interesting conclusion That being said, it is definitely much darker and grittier than any of Brandon's books. I know that a lot of ppl here don't really like books like that. Also, I would say it's not a book for young teen readers. Not because of darkness, because I don't believe in age restricting books, but simply because it is really complex, therefore young readers might simply find it boring. But if you are fine with some grittiness and complex books, definitely go for it. It's worth every minute spent on reading. Edited June 12, 2017 by Pestis the Spider 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlion Blight he/him Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 There are two things to consider with the Malazan books: 1) Erikson and Esslemont conflate authorial reticence with subtlety. A lot of mystery and confusion is the result of just plain withholding of information. This is fine with some aspects (like the actual big plot point of the entire series) but at other times is frustrating (like with almost anything to do with the Tiste or Warrens or Holds). 2) There is a smidgen of post modernism in there. That means there are some points that are... inconsistent... depending on the viewpoint. If you love the consistency that Sanderson & co work very hard on to maintain, know that sometimes Erikson and Esslemont will contradict each other... just because! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who Sharded? Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 It's my #1 series (though it's possible Stormlight Archive can overtake it in the future). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormyQueen she/her Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 On 11/06/2017 at 7:42 AM, Ammanas said: If you ever feel it is overwhelming than the following link should help. Summary and analyses for every chapter: http://www.tor.com/series/malazan-reread-of-the-fallen/ You are a lifesaver! I started reading Malazan, but because I'm always so tiered from studying, I could never get into it but the stuff on the tor website looks really good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsam Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 Yeah, I've got pretty mixed feelings about the Malazan; I've been dragging through it at a pretty glacial pace, and I've rather stalled out in Book 7. I want to finish it, mostly out of sheer stubbornness, and not out of particular enjoyment. I loved the idea of fantasy on a truly epic scope, and Malazan delivers on that: gods and empires and ancient characters and characters of great power, that's all cool stuff. But what Malazan doesn't do a great job of delivering on just the basics of good storytelling, IMO. The stories are just all-over the place, the general format for each book is to have something like 3-6 unrelated (or very loosely related) story lines running at once, all of which converge in the last 10% of the book. And, sure that helps give it the "epic scope" but it makes the actual book feel scattered and unfocused. There's no elevator pitch for most of these books, no plot summary except "lots of things happen". And like Calderis says, the characters are all pretty static. They just don't get enough focus or screen-time for most of them to get developed. I'm seven books, and there's been a few dozen major characters, and only a tiny handful of those do I have much interest in, or care for. And at least for me, that's a big deal; a big epic story isn't that great if it's just a bunch of names of people that I don't care about, if there's very little of a human element to it. There are exceptions, there are characters that are done well, and parts of the plot that are done well. Books 2 (Deadhouse Gates) and 5 (Midnight Tides), for example, while still having several plot threads, manage to constrain their plot threads enough so that it feels like there's a mostly coherent plot to them: Deadhouse Gates centers around the story of a rebellion, and Midnight Tides is focused on a particular character enough to give it a bit of a through-line. The latter is probably my favorite book in the series. But I've found these to be the exceptions, not the rules, and overall it's just been a lot of dense plodding to get to those moments. One more complaint: it felt like there was a lot of, for lack of a better word, soapboxing, where it feels like the author is just putting their thoughts into the characters mouths to try to be "philosophical" or whatever. You'll have some random soldier on patrol with another soldier, and they'll start spouting talk like how "the deep underpinnings of society have lead to the empowerment of the current establishment leading to their current geopolitical situation which oppresses the masses". I'm being hyperbolic, naturally, but there were many conversations in each book where a character muses on some "deep topic" and it just ends up feeling, at best, somewhat unnecessary, and at worst out of character or even authorial tract, at some points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briar King Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 Can't believe no one has said what BK you are reading it for the 2nd rusting time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofLight Posted June 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 well I'm literally about to start Gardens of the Moon. Got some great insight from you guys! One question on the philosophical stuff some people mentioned. Is it anywhere near as annoying as Terry Goodkind in the sword of truth series? I enjoyed that series up until book 6 then it really started to get bad. He literally did the same speech 100 times about altruism and living life for yourself. Please tell me it's not like that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammanas Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, KnightofLight said: well I'm literally about to start Gardens of the Moon. Got some great insight from you guys! One question on the philosophical stuff some people mentioned. Is it anywhere near as annoying as Terry Goodkind in the sword of truth series? I enjoyed that series up until book 6 then it really started to get bad. He literally did the same speech 100 times about altruism and living life for yourself. Please tell me it's not like that. The "philosohical stuff" doesn't really start getting heavy until book 7. Also it is unlike Goodkind (who was trying to promote a Ann Rand philosophy). Its more of a meditation on life and the horrors of war. I did not feel he was trying to push a philosophy down the readers throat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlion Blight he/him Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, KnightofLight said: well I'm literally about to start Gardens of the Moon. Got some great insight from you guys! One question on the philosophical stuff some people mentioned. Is it anywhere near as annoying as Terry Goodkind in the sword of truth series? I enjoyed that series up until book 6 then it really started to get bad. He literally did the same speech 100 times about altruism and living life for yourself. Please tell me it's not like that. Though I'm sure there is a specific message Erikson wants to get across, the characters mostly have varied leftist views. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofLight Posted June 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 23 hours ago, Ammanas said: The "philosohical stuff" doesn't really start getting heavy until book 7. Also it is unlike Goodkind (who was trying to promote a Ann Rand philosophy). Its more of a meditation on life and the horrors of war. I did not feel he was trying to push a philosophy down the readers throat. Good to know. I started it and it's really good so far. Also noticed your name is a character in the book! He must be a interesting one 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammanas Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 15 minutes ago, KnightofLight said: Good to know. I started it and it's really good so far. Also noticed your name is a character in the book! He must be a interesting one He is a major player throughout the series (usually in the center of things). Glad that you are enjoying it. You may already know this, but many fans consider Gardens of the Moon the weakest of the ten....although still a fine book. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsam Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 On 6/17/2017 at 10:26 AM, Ammanas said: The "philosohical stuff" doesn't really start getting heavy until book 7. Also it is unlike Goodkind (who was trying to promote a Ann Rand philosophy). Its more of a meditation on life and the horrors of war. I did not feel he was trying to push a philosophy down the readers throat. I'd definitely disagree with this, FWIW. I'm only on Book 7, now, and I've been pretty consistently frustrated with the soapboxing, throughout the series. It's not so much that the author is trying to push a particular philosophy, like in the Sword of Truth books, it just feels like they're trying too hard to have "philosophical discussions" to the point that it feels forced and out of character, like everyone in this universe aspires to be a greek philosopher. And it does still feel like the author is frequently using characters as mouthpieces for his viewpoint: a lot of characters views have struck me as overly "modern". There's an awful lot of characters who are lionizing the virtue of skepticism or denouncing religion (and very few sympathetic characters espousing opposing viewpoints), for a world with pretty obvious supernatural elements. Or having very modern sounding views on governments and economics. Or even having straw-man debates about abortion, at one point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammanas Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 26 minutes ago, Retsam said: I'd definitely disagree with this, FWIW. I'm only on Book 7, now, and I've been pretty consistently frustrated with the soapboxing, throughout the series. It's not so much that the author is trying to push a particular philosophy, like in the Sword of Truth books, it just feels like they're trying too hard to have "philosophical discussions" to the point that it feels forced and out of character, like everyone in this universe aspires to be a greek philosopher. And it does still feel like the author is frequently using characters as mouthpieces for his viewpoint: a lot of characters views have struck me as overly "modern". There's an awful lot of characters who are lionizing the virtue of skepticism or denouncing religion (and very few sympathetic characters espousing opposing viewpoints), for a world with pretty obvious supernatural elements. Or having very modern sounding views on governments and economics. Or even having straw-man debates about abortion, at one point. There is philosophy throughout the series, but for me it really starts getting heavy in book 7. I agree with you and Orlion on a Cob about his views having a leftist slant though. Its funny bc my personal philosophy it very different than Eriksons in many ways. It doesn't bother me if people express/soap box a different view than my own...its enough for me to believe than I am right and they are misguided. I just shrug my shoulders and say we'll have to agree to disagree. I guess what I am saying is I can understand people having a problem with it; it doesn't bother me though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlion Blight he/him Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 To be sure, I don't have a problem with the philosophical digressions. In fact, that's how people tend to act. Plenty of times people will tell how it is, be skeptical of another view or rile against religion. These are all very ancient topics of discussion, something that Erikson as a trained archeologist is familiar with. It is also interesting to note that, though Erikson leans left, The Malazan Book of the Fallen is a very pro military work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who Sharded? Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) I also thought 7 was the first book with major philosophical digressions. Well I guess 5 had them too, but it was a shorter and more focused book. Erikson leans way farther left than I do, but I don't really care. However if he leaned right, I bet a lot of people would be boycotting these books! I agree it's odd that every single character, no matter how educated, loves to debate philosophy and I agree that they're more modern than what the setting would indicate. But I've just come to accept that. Edited June 19, 2017 by Who Sharded? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofLight Posted July 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 Ok so I'm necroing my own thread. I just wanted to follow up because I read Gardens of the Moon and I'm half way through Deadhouse Gates. First off I'd have to say that I loved GotM. The pacing was fast and yes there was A LOT of stuff going down that I didn't fully comprehend but it was so entertaining that I was ok with not knowing. The characters were IMO very well done. You can just feel the ancient vibe to some of them (K'rul for example). I thought it wasn't too difficult to follow even though he switches POV quite often he writes so well I found this a plus. Some of the elements were downright disturbing (dragnipur anyone??) but this was prob the most intriguing part of the book. So I guess I found my series to read while waiting on Stormlight so thank you all for your opinions and thoughts! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammanas Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 5 hours ago, KnightofLight said: So I guess I found my series to read while waiting on Stormlight so thank you all for your opinions and thoughts! Who knows? You may end up enjoying it so much that Stormlight will be the series to read while waiting for the next malazan book.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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