Theory on the Dawnshards

[Kinolee]

I just completed a reread of TWOK, my first after finishing all of the other works in the Cosmere, and had a thought about the Dawnshards...

The only things we know for sure about the Dawnshards is that:

• They are not the same thing as regular shards on Roshar (shardblades), nor are they they same thing as the Honorblades which were held by the Heralds. -- WOB
• They played a huge role in protecting humanity on Roshar from the desolations in the past, and Honor is worried about the fact that they are now lost -- Dalinar's final vision in TWOK
• They can bind "any creature voidish or mortal" which apparently is a special property -- Poem of Ista

Given all this info, it seems to me that most people thing the Dawnshards were some sort of ancient Spren that could bind to voidish and/or mortal beings that conferred unique powers that are now lost.  Perhaps the people these Dawnshards bound were the Dawnsingers.  It's a great theory, but I've got another, simpler one...

What if the "Dawnshards" are actually just another way to describe Shards of Adonalsium?  I started the Cosmere with the Stormlight Archives, so it has always confused me just how many different things are described as "Shards."  What if, on Roshar, the BIG shards, the "complete" Shards of Adonalsium (ie Honor, Cultivation, Odium), are referred to as the Dawnshards in order to differentiate them from different, regular "shards" which are actually shards of shards (spren).  Here's why I think this might fit:

• They are the shards that existed on Roshar at the "dawn" of creation, ergo they are the "Dawnshards"
• "Talk of them was obviously prevalent among those recording the early mythologies"
• They can bind any creature voidish or mortal.  As far as we know, there aren't any limitations on picking up or holding a Shard of Adonalsium
• They existed some time ago and played a part in helping humanity fight off the desolations (Honor and Cultivation vs. Odium)
• But they are lost now (Honor and Cultivation are dead/splintered), and Honor is worried that humanity can't fight off the desolations (Odium) without them
• The magic system on Roshar seems somewhat different in present times (post-splintering?) than in Dalinar's visions of the past (pre-splintering?)

If I'm right, then this gives the following quote form the Poem of Ista new meaning...

Quote

"Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal, he crawled up the steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides tall apiece, toward the grand temple above."

—From the Poem of Ista. I have found no modern explanation of what these "Dawnshards" are. They seem ignored by scholars, though talk of them was obviously prevalent among those recording the early mythologies

Someone tried to hold on to a Shard of Adonalsium, probably Honor, presumably after its original bearer died.  They must not have been able to hold onto it because we know now that Honor is splintered.  Maybe this is why the person in the poem had to "crawl" up the steps.

What do you guys think?  Poke holes in this for me...

Edited June 4, 2017 by Kinolee
typo

[Kinolee]

And to go along with this theory, I think that Honor was splintered during (or at the end of) the Last Desolation.  The humans had the Dawnshards to help them with Desolations up until this point, but now they no longer do.  Further proof of this comes from something that Arclo says to Lift in Edgedancer:

 

Spoiler

"Your war is my war, and has been for millennia. Ancient Radiants named me friend and ally before everything went wrong. What wonderful days those were, before the Last Desolation. Days of...honor. Now gone, long gone."

 

[CalaCrisp88]

Well, for one thing, Cultivation is still alive and well.

[Kinolee]

1 hour ago, 8giraffe8 said:

Well, for one thing, Cultivation is still alive and well.

Do we know this for sure?

Also, Cultivation doesn't have to be dead to be unavailable.  Maybe she had a part in splintering Honor (I saw a theory that said Cultivation might want Honor dead so as to stop the repeating cycle of Desolations, in line with her intent).  Maybe Honor and Cultivation used to directly help humans fight against Odium, and the Last Desolation involved Cultivation teaming up with Odium to splinter Honor.  No more Dawnshards for the humans...

 

[Calderis he/him]

 

Quote

INTERVIEW: May 22nd, 2013

Rithmatist Signing Report - StormAtlas(Paraphrased)

STORMATLAS

Is Cultivation's holder still alive?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes.

TAGS

Quote

INTERVIEW: Aug 8th, 2013

Spokane Signing Report - theofficetroll(Paraphrased)

 

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

There are 2 Shards on Roshar, however Honor is dead.

FOOTNOTE

The two Shards are Honor and Cultivation.

Quote

SEONID

"If Cultivation and Honor were romantically involved, why did Cultivation not help Honor against Odium?"

BRANDON SANDERSON

"She did."

TAGS

Cultivation, Honor, Odium,

Quote

INTERVIEW: Dec 6th, 2016

Herald Washington Library Center-AU Tour (Paraphrased)

QUESTION

Did Ambition fight back?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes.

QUESTION

And...Was Cultivation close enough to when Odium got [Splintered] Honor, to know how to fight back? Brandon: Heheheheh. I would say yes.

QUESTION

And Cultivation, is she--

BRANDON SANDERSON

She is still there. Alive and kicking.

QUESTION

And she can probably know how to not turn her back to the--

BRANDON SANDERSON

Well, maybe. She has learned from the experiences of others.

TAGS

Odium, Ambition, Honor, Cultivation,

(not sure why every instance of the word Cultivation copied from Theorylannd turned invisible) 

Cultivation tried to help Honor against Odium, and she's still here. 

Considering how much of the Vorin religion is dedicated purely to Tanavast as the Almighty, and seems to not include Cultivation at all, if the Dawnshards were referring to the Shards themselves, I think it would have just been the Dawnshard. Singular.

3 hours ago, Kinolee said:

They can bind any creature voidish or mortal.  As far as we know, there aren't any limitations on picking up or holding a Shard of Adonalsium

But there are. It requires connection to the Shard. Harmonies creation was set up for Millenia

Mistborn: Era 1 and SH

Spoiler

The Terris prophecies, once understood fully, clearly refer to Sazed picking up both shards.

While a good chunk of that time frame had far more to do with setting up the circumstances for Sazed to ascend than the particulars of his connections, that was a factor. If not for the Ire's device, Kelsier would have be unable to ascend to Preservation as he was to connected to Ruin. 

 

Quote

"Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal, he crawled up the steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides tall apiece, toward the grand temple above."

—From the Poem of Ista. I have found no modern explanation of what these "Dawnshards" are. They seem ignored by scholars, though talk of them was obviously prevalent among those recording the early mythologies

I'm fairly sure most of this passage is just mythological other than the start about the Dawnshards. Steps carved for Heralds would have no need to be any larger than normal. 

All in all, it's an idea I haven't seen before, but not one I can agree with. 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

6 hours ago, Kinolee said:

And to go along with this theory, I think that Honor was splintered during (or at the end of) the Last Desolation.

I do not know what effect this will have on your overall theory, but this statement is entirely inaccurate. Honor has memory of the Recreance, which is roughly 2 millennia after Aharietiam. Additionally, Honor was alive when the Heralds abandoned the Oathpact after the Last Desolation.

Quote

Question

Was Honor Shattered before or after the Recreance?

Brandon Sanderson

I believe after. I'm pretty sure. I mean, he has memories of the Recreance.

Quote

Question

Was the Almighty still alive when the Heralds packed it in, and did the Radiants pack it in in direct response to what the Heralds did?

Brandon Sanderson

The Radiants did NOT abandon their post as a response to the Heralds. The Radiants abandoned it for some other reason which will become evident eventually. The Almighty was still around when the Heralds did their thing.

Emphasis(Bold) added.

[The Forgetful Archivist he/him]

I think that the Dawnshards were more weapon-like than spren-like because the there is a type "benevolent spren" called the Dawnsingers were "benevolent spren." I do not think that Brandon would name 2 types of archaic spren so similarly. Additionally, I think that the quote from Isa's poem ("Taking the Dawnshard") implies the Dawnshards as being a ritual or weapon.

[ZenBossanova]

If these Dawnshards are lost, then does that suggest Odium has them? Or where else could they be lost? 

[Calderis he/him]

4 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

If these Dawnshards are lost, then does that suggest Odium has them? Or where else could they be lost? 

I'm beginning to wonder if the Dawnshards are what was turned into the Unmade. Their name implies they were something before, and the only thing completely missing that's hinted at any real level of power is the Dawnshards. It's totally speculatively grasping at straws, but it's wormed it's way into my brain. 

[Jace21 he/him]

My current theory is that the dawnshards was a collective name for a varied group of objects. 

Kind of like how a hammer and a saw ars both "tools" but are individually very different.

Not sure if there is WoB that contradicts it yet, it needs work before I role it out to the public.

[Pagerunner he/him]

12 hours ago, Kinolee said:

The only things we know for sure about the Dawnshards is that:

• They are not the same thing as regular shards on Roshar (shardblades), nor are they they same thing as the Honorblades which were held by the Heralds. -- WOB

Can you provide this WoB? Peter, at least, believes they are just Honorblades, so I would be very surprised if we had confirmation to the contrary (even if I do agree with you that Dawnshards are not the Honorblades).

[Jondesu he/him]

Just now, Pagerunner said:

Can you provide this WoB? Peter, at least, believes they are just Honorblades, so I would be very surprised if we had confirmation to the contrary (even if I do agree with you that Dawnshards are not the Honorblades).

I was just about to post that same link. I think the context in which we've seen them referred to agrees, with some apocryphal details added in.

[Calderis he/him]

6 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Can you provide this WoB? Peter, at least, believes they are just Honorblades, so I would be very surprised if we had confirmation to the contrary (even if I do agree with you that Dawnshards are not the Honorblades).

I don't know what WoB he's referring to, but that WoP surprises me. I mean, in book in one of Dalinar's visions, the Almighty speaks says 

Quote

“I wish I could do more,” repeated the figure in gold. “You might be able to get him to choose a champion. He is bound by some rules. All of us are. 

A champion could work well for you, but it is not certain. And… without the Dawnshards… Well, I have done what I can. It is a terrible, terrible thing to leave you alone.”

As much as the Heralds walked away, the Honorblades are still with the Shin, not gone. 

Whatever the Dawnshards are, Tanavasts words imply that they are well and truly lost. 

[+Extesian he/him]

The WoB @Kinolee is thinking of could be this one

Quote

QUESTION

Truthless are pretty rare in Shin society?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes.

QUESTION

How did they come by the Dawnshard[I think he and Brandon meant honorblade?] that Szeth got?

BRANDON SANDERSON

They historically kept all of them.

QUESTION

Does that have anything to do why they think stone is sacred?

BRANDON SANDERSON

You will find out more about that as time progresses

I personally believe this is an error, and either dawnshards aren't mentioned or brandon knew the person meant Honorbladesand didn't correct. It is an argument for them being the Honorblades but I don't believe it myself, because of Tanavast's words. 

One thing I've been thinking of doing a theory on, but I'll throw out for discussion now as it's being widely considered, is the larkins/lanceryn. I can't see it matching up, but I am a  obsessed with Aimia right now. We know that dawnshards are important, can bond any creature "voidish or mortal" (unless that's myth), we know lanceryn are greatshells and larkins are their larvae, we know they eat investiture, we know they have been thought extinct since the scouring of Aimia, and (Oathbringer Spoilers)

Spoiler

we know the Aimians are obsessed with keeping Akinah secret, we know that larkins/lanceryn go there to die, and we know that it could "end worlds" if the secret is discovered

In light of these things, and Honor believing the Dawnshards are gone, I wonder if lanceryn gemhearts could be Dawnshards. I don't think they are, and I think lanceryn (or larkins) have huge significance, as does Aimia and Akinah in particular, but not that significance. But there are some commonalities there. 

Oh and @Calderis the formatting when you copy search results from theoryland (where the searched term is emphasised) messes up. When you're copying it just 'remove formatting' below.

[Jondesu he/him]

58 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I don't know what WoB he's referring to, but that WoP surprises me. I mean, in book in one of Dalinar's visions, the Almighty speaks says 

As much as the Heralds walked away, the Honorblades are still with the Shin, not gone. 

Whatever the Dawnshards are, Tanavasts words imply that they are well and truly lost. 

The Honorblades don't seem to work the way they once did. They may be just a shadow of their original power, since we think (know?) that the Heralds drew Investiture directly from Honor, but I assume they cannot do that now. Perhaps that's the reason the Dawnshards are lost. Not because the physical items are gone, but because the power is gone.

New headcanon: Kaladin will eventually take up Jezrien's Blade and tap directly into Honor's remaining Investiture (should work even without a Vessel) and become the new leader of the Heralds.

[Yata he/him]

4 hours ago, Calderis said:

I'm beginning to wonder if the Dawnshards are what was turned into the Unmade. Their name implies they were something before, and the only thing completely missing that's hinted at any real level of power is the Dawnshards. It's totally speculatively grasping at straws, but it's wormed it's way into my brain. 

I considerated this but the Unmades were already there in the previous Desolations, while the Dawnshards' Lost seems to be more recent

Edited June 5, 2017 by Yata

[+Extesian he/him]

I agree with your analysis of the Honorblades @Jondesu and I like the idea of one of them reconnecting to Honor's investiture directly, but I feel the problem is that Honor's splintering manifested on the formation of vast numbers of new spren and that Honor's power can't be accessed like that without the investiture in those spren being absorbed back. Basically recombining the Shard. I've even wondered of the Recreance was designed to do that in part. But that's all highly speculative. 

edit - realized the last sentence is flat out wrong

Edited June 5, 2017 by Extesian
Wrong

[galendo]

14 hours ago, Extesian said:

I agree with your analysis of the Honorblades @Jondesu and I like the idea of one of them reconnecting to Honor's investiture directly, but I feel the problem is that Honor's splintering manifested on the formation of vast numbers of new spren and that Honor's power can't be accessed like that without the investiture in those spren being absorbed back. Basically recombining the Shard. I've even wondered of the Recreance was designed to do that in part. But that's all highly speculative. 

If anything, I'd see the Recreance as the opposite of an attempt to recombine Honor.  It's taking flexible pieces of Investiture (spren) and forcing them into single, well-defined forms (Shardblades).  WoB also says that Honor wasn't splintered at the time, anyway, though he's also described splintering as a slow process, so it's not impossible that the Recreance was an attempt to delay or reverse that process somehow.  It doesn't quite seem like it fits, though.  How could killing Honor's spren possibly help keep Honor alive?

[+Extesian he/him]

5 hours ago, galendo said:

If anything, I'd see the Recreance as the opposite of an attempt to recombine Honor.  It's taking flexible pieces of Investiture (spren) and forcing them into single, well-defined forms (Shardblades).  WoB also says that Honor wasn't splintered at the time, anyway, though he's also described splintering as a slow process, so it's not impossible that the Recreance was an attempt to delay or reverse that process somehow.  It doesn't quite seem like it fits, though.  How could killing Honor's spren possibly help keep Honor alive?

I was very tired and not thinking when I wrote that. The Recreance happened before Honor was Splintered anyway