The mechanics of AonDor and Elantris

[+Extesian he/him]

I mentioned this theory was in another thread but since I realized it seems to be a bit original I thought I'd put it in a separate post. 

People have wondered how Elantris could be the thing that lets people access the AonDor but AonDor access must have come before the building of Elantris, for Elantris to be a working Aon. So here's my take on it. 

For clarity, I'll use Elantrian to describe a user of AonDor that has completed full transformation into the silvery immortals we know and love; I'll use AonDor user to describe someone who has been 'initiated' into AonDor usage but has not been transformed; and I'll use Shaodic Elantrian (stupid term but I don't have a better one) to describe someone half-transformed, with the splotchy horribleness and inability to heal, whether they entered this state after the Reod or were Elantrian pre-Reod (as the effect is the same). An important definition here is also savant. I deliberately won't use the word because a savant in the Cosmere has a certain definition and certain implications that even Brandon hasn't settled in his own mind, and is revising because it was moving away from its original meaning of dangerously permeating your soul with too much power. I am proposing Elantris transforms AonDor users into something similar to a savant, but not a savant as we do far understand it.

Firstly, I don't know how AonDor users are 'initiated', how they access the Dor in the first place. Brandon's quiet on it. But my theory isn't about that. Initiation is a separate and first event, we don't know why or how it happens, but it's a precursor to becoming 'Elantrian'. I don't know if it's similar to allomancy, where you have the ability embedded in your sDNA but it takes snapping to access it, or if it's one event that gives people both the ability and sufficient 'gap' in the spiritweb at the same time, but however it works it lets the person access AonDor and, no matter when in time (before or after Elantris) turns the person into am AonDor user. This took place before Elantris was built, but accesses the Dor at a low level, the level you see after Raoden teleports and tries to access it. 

Secondly, in the past, AonDor users figured out how to draw Aons, what they mean and most importantly how to program with them. You can use AonDor to take individual Aons and build them, like programming, into an equation.

Quote

Q: You recently compared the Aon Dor to a programming language of some sorts. Could you actually go one step further and build something like a curcuit board? (Like Redstone in Minecraft)
A: The difficultiy with all of that is that you have got to remember that the magic as they understand it right now only works based on Elantrian intention and activation. There were basically these sorts of things, but the switch has to be flipped by an Elantrian. Thoase things existed in Elantris.
Q: It's just that I think that Elantris itself could be some sort of a really big circuit board.
A: That may be a little too far for what Elantris is, but there are places in Elantris which are just what you are describing

You can then draw that equation-Aon and, if you can access AonDor, if you are an AonDor user, the Aon will draw Investiture and channel it to do what the equation said.  

AonDor users in the past figured out an equation, got the resultant Aon and built Elantris into the shape of that Aon. That Aon enables a flood of controlled investiture to (and this is where I speculate on Realmatics in a way I'm happy to be picked apart) dramatically widen the channels in the AonDor user (the 'investiture channels' that channel investiture through the user into a controlled outcome), giving access to massive amounts of Investiture trying to escape the Cognitive Realm, similar to what happens to a savant. The difference between an Elantrian (an AonDor user in the operating vicinity of Elantris when fully functional) and a savant is that the 'Elantris equation' enables that widening of 'channels' to be carefully controlled so the soul is not dangerously permeated with Investiture - it's safely permeated. An Elantrian leaving the operating vicinity of Elantris is still an AonDor user and still an Elantrian but can only draw the same amount of Investiture a pre-Elantris AonDor user could but they retain the benefits of folk transformation to an Elantrian (in the same way a Returned maintains their status even when they don't have any Breaths other than their divine one and they can't use it to awaken).

This explains how Elantris could be built by AonDor users who weren't yet Elantrians.

Thirdly, the Reod changed the necessary Elantris equation. This (in my mind) meant that initiated AonDor users in the operating vicinity of Elantris were still affected by the equation but in an abortive way. The broken equation starts the flood of Investiture into the AonDor user, widening their channels, but because the equation is incomplete they fail to transform into an Elantrian. This is where I speculate again but I see it like this. We know that access to far too much investiture will effectively vaporize a person (like anyone who ascends, or Vin drawing on the mists)

Quote

KAIMIPONO (16 OCTOBER 2008)

Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with Atium—it's fueled by both gods' bodies?

BRANDON SANDERSON (17 OCTOBER 2008)

The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms.

Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers. The form of that super fuel is important. In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal. In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing. In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future. In the case of concentrated Preservation, it gives one a permanent connection to the mists and the powers of creation. (I.e., it makes them an Allomancer.)

So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak—though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that—using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself—to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=727

It's then investiture keeping them alive. I think the Elantris equation is carefully controlled to prevent too much investiture being drawn and balances it out to keep the person alive and in control of their investiture usage. When Elantris changed (and the equation changed because the Aons are based on the geography) it didn't allow so much investiture to flood through as to cause the same problems as someone tapping the mists, but it permeated the soul enough, ripped wide enough 'troughs' in the spiritweb to change the user's soul. Normally then investiture would enable the person's physical body to repair to match the soul. But because the equation is broken they can't access enough investiture to heal, to have their physical self change to match their spiritual self. Hence the Shaodic Elantrians. Once the Elantris equation was corrected that flood of investiture completed the equation for existing Shaodic Elantrians and enabled their physical selves to match their spiritual selves (and/or the changes to the spiritweb were completed).

 

So to summarize, initiation as an AonDor user is a separate, still-unknown thing. Once that happens, under normal circumstances they are a magic user like any other, moderately invested and able to access magic in a way that increases over time as their investiture channels widen. Elantris being built hijacked that so any AonDor initiate in the area has investiture forced through them in a controlled way, safely widening the channels in their spiritweb to make them so invested as to be immortal and giving them access to a huge Dor-doorway, because their spiritweb changes and the investiture 'heals' them to match their physical body to their now-changed spiritual aspect. When Elantris fails (when the equation changes) their spiritweb is changed, but not properly because the equation is incomplete, and because they can't access enough investiture to heal (to change their physical body to match their spiritual self) their body can no longer heal itself, investiture is needed to do that. I'll note that one thing I'm unsure of but doesn't matter as much for this theory is whether the faulty equation fully transforms their spiritweb, or partially, but either way they can't access enough investiture to match their physical body to it, and because the need for investiture has effectively replaced their own immune system/ability for their body to heal itself, they can't physical heal. 

I hope that makes some sense! If I've missed any basic background in transferring this to a new thread point out out and I'll edit. If there's any dispute over terminology that's fine, and I can correct, but I'm really interested in ideas on whether the mechanics of this add up realmatically and in terms of Cosmere history. 

Edited May 21, 2017 by Extesian
Changed Shaod to Shaodic Elantrian

[Calderis he/him]

@Extesian I already let you know in the other thread that I agree. Glad to see you fleshed out your reasoning more. Still agree. 

[Yata he/him]

I like your theory but I think you need to change the Shaod's definition as the Shaod Will be the process (in your term) under an AonDor user becomes an Elantrian and It's not strictly related to the Reod and the Broken City.

It could be confusing.

Anyway good job ;-)

[Djarskublar he/him]

This mostly makes sense, but you missed one thing. The Elantrians that were already there turned into the zombie like state when the Chasm formed. The way you presented it would suggest that wouldn't happen.

My alternate explanation would be that when they are initiated, it happens as you say. In the vicinity of Elantris, they also have modifications made to them that dramatically change them. I think they were turned into Cognitive Shadows. They had a massive influx of investiture that replaced important parts of them, and when Elantris broke, the flow of power from the Dor vastly diminished and their form was corrupted since it didn't have the necessary power to maintain it. They were immortal because of their state as shadows, but they still had their original connection to the physical plane. The fact that they had their original connection made it so that they don't die like a Returned, but they still have the woes of the flesh. The form of Elantrians requires power to sustain, and suddenly mostly losing it caused that dramatic change. Just leaving the area might not do that, or you could somehow take precautions. Also, access to the Dor didn't completely disappear for them. They should still have the basic level of access they would have without Elantris, even if all the Aons are wrong. This allowed them to stay alive, if only barely.

I think that covers all of the necessary points. Basically, I think you were essentially right, and I'm adding some information that could explain the events we saw.

Edit: Also, if someone initiated on the extreme edge of where you can be initiated, could they perhaps be far enough outside the sphere of influence of the city to become like the AonDor users of old without a transformation (and then presumably change if they moved too close to the city)?

That also makes me think, if that is the case, then perhaps the initiation always occurs at night, but the transformation occurs when you enter the Elantris Field. That could potentially explain why some people transformed during the day, they were on their way to the capital.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Djarskublar

[Yata he/him]

@Djarskublar we know by WoB that Elantrians are not Cognitive Shadows.

[Djarskublar he/him]

Just now, Yata said:

@Djarskublar we know by WoB that Elantrians are not Cognitive Shadows.

Hmmm, you're right about that, forgot that tidbit... Maybe that is just by the in-world definition. Perhaps because they still have their original connection to the physical realm? They aren't a ghost yet, so maybe they are effectively shadows, but not technically. A good question to ask would be if they become shadows once they die. I still really like my explanation, so maybe just rewording all of the instances of shadow to something else would make it sound better. It was definitely an ease of use thing, since I can't think of a term for them that we already have, and I don't feel like making new terms tonight.

[Calderis he/him]

26 minutes ago, Djarskublar said:

Hmmm, you're right about that, forgot that tidbit... Maybe that is just by the in-world definition. Perhaps because they still have their original connection to the physical realm? They aren't a ghost yet, so maybe they are effectively shadows, but not technically. A good question to ask would be if they become shadows once they die. I still really like my explanation, so maybe just rewording all of the instances of shadow to something else would make it sound better. It was definitely an ease of use thing, since I can't think of a term for them that we already have, and I don't feel like making new terms tonight.

It's clunky but without being a shadow they'd be a Cognitive dominant being whereas most humans are physical dominant. There has to be a better term for it but I understand and agree with what your saying. 

[+Extesian he/him]

Thanks guys. @Yata I've changed Shaod to Shaodic Elantrian, which I hate, but you're right that Shaod is confusing.

@Djarskublar you're totally right, I forgot about existing Elantrians changing with the Reod. I had thought about Cognitive Shadows but as was rightly acknowledged we've been told they're not. However this doesn't bother me too much. It firms up one of the questions I had, about whether the faulty Elantrian equation changes the spiritweb fully or partially. I think Elantris, both post- and pre-Reod, changes the spiritweb fully, but the error prevents enough investiture flowing through. Elantrians defy existing definitions; they're almost a Cognitive Shadow but they never died, the equation is designed to hold their physical selves (and possibly cognitive and spiritual selves, to an extent) together with the accompanying investiture. They're also like a savant, with widened channels, but again because of the perfectly calibrated equation, investiture stops them from breaking down physically like a Soulcasting savant does. When the equation breaks, it doesn't so enough to stop Elantris altering spiritwebs of the initiated, it simply prevents enough investiture coming through to maintain the balance. 

So yeah I think in the operating vicinity of Elantris, that change will be forced on anyone initiated, and alter their spiritual, cognitive and physical aspects in a way that requires constant access to large amounts of Investiture. Whether pre- or post-Reod Elantrian, if that access to Investiture is stopped, the Shaod takes effect because there's no investiture to anchor their physical (and possibly cognitive) aspects to their enhanced spiritweb. The difference with a Returned, or cognitive shadows generally, is that the Physical self was never severed from the other Realms, their bodies never died. The lack of investiture isn't enough to kill an Elantrian, only enough to have their physical body just hang on.

It would also settle the question of why the IRE must far pre-date the Reod, but when we see them they're Shaodic Elantrians after the tone Elantris was restored. Any Elantrian no longer accessing sufficient investiture will have their physical bodies break down like that. If they went back to Elantris they'd be restored. 

[Djarskublar he/him]

3 minutes ago, Extesian said:

It would also settle the question of why the IRE must far pre-date the Reod, but when we see them they're Shaodic Elantrians after the tone Elantris was restored. Any Elantrian no longer accessing sufficient investiture will have their physical bodies break down like that. If they went back to Elantris they'd be restored. 

Well, Brandon implied that there are some of them from both before and after the events of Elantris. Someone asked if they were from before or after and he said something to the effect of who said it had to be one or the other.

As for the other thing, they have that leyline-esque power line at their fort, so I assume they are using some Aon(s) to channel power through the CR to the fort. They were also drinking potions that appeared to be pure Investiture. Presumably they are performing like Returned and consuming some Investiture periodically to maintain their Elantrian form.

[+Extesian he/him]

1 hour ago, Djarskublar said:

Well, Brandon implied that there are some of them from both before and after the events of Elantris. Someone asked if they were from before or after and he said something to the effect of who said it had to be one or the other.

As for the other thing, they have that leyline-esque power line at their fort, so I assume they are using some Aon(s) to channel power through the CR to the fort. They were also drinking potions that appeared to be pure Investiture. Presumably they are performing like Returned and consuming some Investiture periodically to maintain their Elantrian form.

Yeah they're getting that investiture but I'm just assuming it's nowhere near enough to restore themselves. I don't think they need investiture regularly to maintain their form though, like Returned, where they're dead but investiture is needed regularly to keep their soul stapled to their old body. Whereas Elantrians don't die, their body just can't get enough investiture to keep their alive body matching their new improved soul. I think they stay intact but need a bit of investiture for very basic healing and so on. Just what they get from the pipeline is nowhere near as much as you get from being in the operating vicinity of a fully functioning Elantris. 

But yeah whether they're pre- or post-Reod Elantrians, they would react the same to being far from Elantris. If we see a full glowing Elantrian on another world, without a big source of investiture, that would prove that wrong though. 

Edited May 21, 2017 by Extesian

[Knight Oblivion]

Well, this sounds plausible. Definitely puts this portion of my confusion regarding AonDor at ease. Now if only I can figure out the chasm line...

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom he/him]

Going to necro this.

OK. A couple of problems.

1. If what you are saying is right, then that would mean that Pre-Elantris, an AonDor user's Aons would be as weak (or weaker) than Raod-Raoden's were once he discovered the Chasm line. That seems really really weak to be building Elantris from.

2. If you move far enough from Elantris, the Dor doesn't work at all. So in Teod, he can still use Aon Dor, though it's weak. That's because he hasn't actually left the range of Elantris yet. No, my suspicion is that depending on where you are, the Dor has developed different flavors based on the mentality of the people there. That means, that if you move far enough away, the flavor of the Dor you are connected to isn't accessible anymore. There are other places where it is mixed in with another flavor, so you get only a portion of the power (say, like if it was 40% Elantrian and 60% Dakhor, an Elantrian would have 40% of his home power, and a Dakhor would have 60% of his home power). I also suspect that the Aonic language came about before AonDor, and that AonDor was created from people's perceptions of the Aons as a language. As such, Elantris might have existed before AonDor did. Remember, because the investiture of the Dor is in the CR, it is under the influence of the thoughts and views of the people in the PR. After all, the Languages were influenced by the Shards, and the magic systems stem in large part from the fact that the Investiture is in the CR (so, after Odium shattered D&D)

[Yata he/him]

47 minutes ago, Lord Maelstrom said:

2. If you move far enough from Elantris, the Dor doesn't work at all. So in Teod, he can still use Aon Dor, though it's weak. That's because he hasn't actually left the range of Elantris yet. No, my suspicion is that depending on where you are, the Dor has developed different flavors based on the mentality of the people there. That means, that if you move far enough away, the flavor of the Dor you are connected to isn't accessible anymore. There are other places where it is mixed in with another flavor, so you get only a portion of the power (say, like if it was 40% Elantrian and 60% Dakhor, an Elantrian would have 40% of his home power, and a Dakhor would have 60% of his home power). I also suspect that the Aonic language came about before AonDor, and that AonDor was created from people's perceptions of the Aons as a language. As such, Elantris might have existed before AonDor did. Remember, because the investiture of the Dor is in the CR, it is under the influence of the thoughts and views of the people in the PR. After all, the Languages were influenced by the Shards, and the magic systems stem in large part from the fact that the Investiture is in the CR (so, after Odium shattered D&D)

In Teod, the AonDor works at 100% of his rightful power because it's still in the Aonic Area. The Elantrian are "very weaker" there just because they had not the artificial Elantris' boost to help them, in your own term. Raoden is as powerful in Toed as he was in Elantris before the city's fix (when indeed the artificial boost doesn't work yet)

Edited October 16, 2017 by Yata

[Calderis he/him]

6 hours ago, Yata said:

In Teod, the AonDor works at 100% of his rightful power because it's still in the Aonic Area. The Elantrian are "very weaker" there just because they had not the artificial Elantris' boost to help them, in your own term. Raoden is as powerful in Toed as he was in Elantris before the city's fix (when indeed the artificial boost doesn't work yet)

This.

I think that for most Selish powers, the majority of the region is a plateau of equal strength, with some tapered edges on the outskirts, and Elantris just added a mountain on top of the plateau. Much higher power output, and much steeper range requirements 

The distance between Fjordell and Elantris should have made the powers of Dilaf and the Monks diminish significantly if their powers weaken at a similar rate, and yet they seem to be fairly formidable enemies.

Shai obviously travels, and there's no mention of power loss from her either

Elantris could have been anywhere in Opelon. It has a range of its own. Beyond its range you get no boost, and until you hit the actual cutoff to the powers area, you'll function at 100% pre-elantris power. 

Edited October 16, 2017 by Calderis