Is this how Parshendi communicate with each other?

[Reborn radiant]

I apologize if this has been put forth already.

So, we know all parshendi are partially in the cognitive realm ( Is it confirmed? ), I think so, because of their ability to see spren. If I remember it correctly, they see spren coming off from a far off place and collect around them, alethi just see spren materializing around them. (While on that topic, is the presence of shard pools on horneater peaks gives Rock affinity to see spren?).

So. if all parshendi are partially in cognitive realm, and if they all share a strong connection between them, then they could probably act as a semi-bee hive species. I mean not with a queen that can control them all, but they all act as if they have a single mind when they are singing or attuning to a rhythm. I don't think the slave form can do this because they have no spren and they are not in the CR.

So, now this leads to another point. Are parshendi partly in CR because they have spren or is it the other way? I think it is the earlier. In words of radiance, just before he lashes for the first time, we see him partly entering cognitive realm and controlling the surge from there. So it is the spren taking them partly to CR. Hence slave form, no spren, no entry to CR, hence can't communicate to other parshendi.

I am sorry if this is a fairly popular theory, I just haven't thought of it this way until now

[Jedal he/him]

Well, if I remember correctly, even after the Bridge Four Parshman was transformed into Stormform, he still retained some sort of independence, as he was disgusted by the actions taken by his kinsmen.

[Spoolofwhool]

20 minutes ago, Jedal said:

Well, if I remember correctly, even after the Bridge Four Parshman was transformed into Stormform, he still retained some sort of independence, as he was disgusted by the actions taken by his kinsmen.

Rlain was warform, not stormform.

53 minutes ago, Reborn radiant said:

So, now this leads to another point. Are parshendi partly in CR because they have spren or is it the other way? I think it is the earlier. In words of radiance, just before he lashes for the first time, we see him partly entering cognitive realm and controlling the surge from there. So it is the spren taking them partly to CR. Hence slave form, no spren, no entry to CR, hence can't communicate to other parshendi.

I think they're more attuned to the cognitive realm than humans by default, not because of the spren bond. Main reason is because of the line in the Listener song: 

Quote

The spren betrayed us, it's often felt.
Our minds are too close to their realm
That gives us our forms, but more is then
Demanded by the smartest spren,
We can't provide what the humans lend,
Though broth are we, their meat is men.

- Words of Radiance, Chapter 32 Epigraph

I don't think the Listeners communicate by anything remotely close to what KRs are doing when they project their consciousness deep enough to actually view Shadesmar. None of the Listener viewpoints show anything like that. Therefore, even though that projection is more than likely a result of the nahel bond, I don't think it bears any weight towards the Listener ability being because of spren bonds.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2017 by Spoolofwhool

[Reborn radiant]

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

None of the Listener viewpoints show anything like that.

True. But it is possible that it is too instinctive for them to actually think about it when they do it. I mean we hardly think about breathing all the time, right? So, it IS possible that they are communicating via cognitive realm and connection, but they don't realise it. Oh, also I don't mean nahel bond. Just the usual spren trapping done by Parshendi.

 

 

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

I think they're more attuned to the cognitive realm than humans by default, not because of the spren bond. Main reason is because of the line in the Listener song: 

Right. I forgot about this. Thank you!

But the point still remains is that they might be communicating via CR and connection. Because of the connection their minds may be partially open to other listeners and because they are partially in CR they can send rudimentary forms of thought in the form of rhythms. Or do we have a clear answer as to how parshendi are able to communicate with each other? I think the reason is realmatic rather than biological.

[Reborn radiant]

2 hours ago, Jedal said:

Well, if I remember correctly, even after the Bridge Four Parshman was transformed into Stormform, he still retained some sort of independence, as he was disgusted by the actions taken by his kinsmen.

I don't mean complete control of the parshmen by someone else when I mean part-hive mind. I just mean that they all seem to connected to something. Consider this:
Eshonai speaks of attuning to peace. She speaks as if that rhythm always exists and all she has to do is reach out to it. It means all listeners are connected to something same. Something large and common to all listeners. I view it as collective thoughts of all listeners.So when she is attuning to peace, eshonai is essentially behaving more like other listeners who are at peace. But she has the option to opt out of it and be violent. It is her choice. so she does have independence. (I hope I am making sense!)

He was in warform bdw. Not stormform.

[+Extesian he/him]

22 minutes ago, Reborn radiant said:

I don't mean complete control of the parshmen by someone else when I mean part-hive mind. I just mean that they all seem to connected to something. Consider this:
Eshonai speaks of attuning to peace. She speaks as if that rhythm always exists and all she has to do is reach out to it. It means all listeners are connected to something same. Something large and common to all listeners. I view it as collective thoughts of all listeners.So when she is attuning to peace, eshonai is essentially behaving more like other listeners who are at peace. But she has the option to opt out of it and be violent. It is her choice. so she does have independence. (I hope I am making sense!)

He was in warform bdw. Not stormform.

The rhythms are something that exist Cosmere-wide but manifest that way on Roshar.

Quote

Q: If you took a Parshendi... If a Parshendi was born beyond Roshar and never visited it, could they sense the Rythms?
A: You mean Rosharan...
Q: I mean, just generally Rythms.
A: Well, Rythms are... it's something that permeates the Cosmere, and just manifests in a different way on Roshar.
Q: Oh, so is it the same thing that Soothers and Rioters are using?
A: Well, now you're straying into RAFO territory...

Source

It doesn't answer the rest of the questions but it's something worth further analysis (which I haven't had time to do).

[Reborn radiant]

Oh, that I didn't know. Thanks!
Also there was this other thread on 17th shard which talks about lightweavers could potentially affect these waves too. If the rhythms are similar to the waves that permeate cosmere, it would be badass.

[Radiant_Jaeger he/him]

On 4/30/2017 at 9:17 PM, Reborn radiant said:

I don't mean complete control of the parshmen by someone else when I mean part-hive mind. I just mean that they all seem to connected to something. Consider this:
Eshonai speaks of attuning to peace. She speaks as if that rhythm always exists and all she has to do is reach out to it. It means all listeners are connected to something same. Something large and common to all listeners. I view it as collective thoughts of all listeners.So when she is attuning to peace, eshonai is essentially behaving more like other listeners who are at peace. But she has the option to opt out of it and be violent. It is her choice. so she does have independence. (I hope I am making sense!)

He was in warform bdw. Not stormform.

What if they were a creation of both Odium and Honor but Odium tried to corrupt them? they could be a part of both their powers and attuned to the fabric of the cosmere.

[Reborn radiant]

49 minutes ago, Radiant_Jaeger said:

What if they were a creation of both Odium and Honor but Odium tried to corrupt them? they could be a part of both their powers and attuned to the fabric of the cosmere.

Wouldn't that be too much like what preservation and ruin did on Scadrial? Preservation put a little bit too much of himself in humanity. I don't think Brandon would do the same story line twice.

[Radiant_Jaeger he/him]

20 minutes ago, Reborn radiant said:

Wouldn't that be too much like what preservation and ruin did on Scadrial? Preservation put a little bit too much of himself in humanity. I don't think Brandon would do the same story line twice.

It could be more than that. Odium with the listeners except Honor tried to free them, more of a rescue story then ill fated mistake 

[Ciridae]

3 hours ago, Radiant_Jaeger said:

What if they were a creation of both Odium and Honor but Odium tried to corrupt them? they could be a part of both their powers and attuned to the fabric of the cosmere.

Quote

QUESTION

Are the Parshendi of Honor?

BRANDON SANDERSON

No.

I don't think honor meddled with the Parshendi in any way, but there are two other WoB that say that Parshendi were not of Odium or Cultivation originally. In addition we know that none of the shards created Parshendi, they existed on Roshar before the shattering. 

 

[Crucible of Shards he/him]

I was under the impression that the Rhythms were in the Spiritual Realm since they appear to be location-independent. I also vaguely remember (?) a WoB saying something to that effect.

[Radiant_Jaeger he/him]

1 hour ago, Crucible of Shards said:

I was under the impression that the Rhythms were in the Spiritual Realm since they appear to be location-independent. I also vaguely remember (?) a WoB saying something to that effect.

Ooooh what if that's where the Nahel Bond takes place as well... that could be why they think the spren "abandoned them"

Upvoted

[Spoolofwhool]

51 minutes ago, Radiant_Jaeger said:

Ooooh what if that's where the Nahel Bond takes place as well... that could be why they think the spren "abandoned them"

Upvoted

The nahel bond is a connection between the spren and the KR via the cracks in the KR's spiritweb so it does have a large spiritual component. 

[+Extesian he/him]

8 hours ago, Crucible of Shards said:

I was under the impression that the Rhythms were in the Spiritual Realm since they appear to be location-independent. I also vaguely remember (?) a WoB saying something to that effect.

There was confirmation of that at the Boskone signing. 

Quote

Q: Could a Soother prevent a listener from attuning a given rhythm?
A: No. A coppercloud could, but I hadn't thought about emotional allomancy interacting. See, the rhythm isn't your emotion and doesn't determine your mood. It is a direct connection to the spiritual realm. So I guess soothing could make it harder just like it makes anything harder, in the same way that driving a car would be harder. [recording starts here] And so, for the same reasons that you can, um, it is possible that a coppercloud can play with it.  Not a normal power of a coppercloud, but you’ve seen them do stuff similar.
 

 

[Radiant_Jaeger he/him]

@Extesian Then what is the connection between the rhythms and gaining new forms I wonder? Powered by Odium, but not all forms are corruptable... So why did he even create those forms in the first place? Or were all the non evil forms the price of giving power and dominating the parshendi and parshmen?

Perhaps the same way that the ideals were the price of power for the KR

[The One Who Connects he/him]

1 hour ago, Radiant_Jaeger said:

@Extesian Then what is the connection between the rhythms and gaining new forms I wonder? Powered by Odium, but not all forms are corruptable... So why did he even create those forms in the first place? Or were all the non evil forms the price of giving power and dominating the parshendi and parshmen?

I'm not 100% sure what you are asking, but there seems to be a misconception in your statement: Forms are not Rhythms.

As for your question, some forms existed before the Shattering. I don't think Odium actually created new forms so much as his arrival created his Spren. Parshendi can bond to any Spren, and some of his actually worked without becoming Dullform.

[Radiant_Jaeger he/him]

14 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

I'm not 100% sure what you are asking, but there seems to be a misconception in your statement: Forms are not Rhythms.

As for your question, some forms existed before the Shattering. I don't think Odium actually created new forms so much as his arrival created his Spren. Parshendi can bond to any Spren, and some of his actually worked without becoming Dullform.

Upvote! So are there different rhythms for every kind of spren? Same question with forms... 

Also if there are forms of Odium are there also forms of Honor? Or will this be how Eshonai gets to become a Radiant she will adopt a spren of Honor... (or cultivation) Maybe that's why they think the spren betrayed them because the forms of power that were once available through cultivation and honor were instead given to humans as surges through the Nahel bond

Edited May 8, 2017 by Radiant_Jaeger

[The One Who Connects he/him]

3 hours ago, Radiant_Jaeger said:

So are there different rhythms for every kind of Spren? Same question with forms... 

Not exactly. The Forms are Spren Specific, the Rhythms exist separately. Most Spren should work for making a Form, but all the Spren that do not have a specific Form tied to them will make the Listener enter Dullform (Which makes me wonder if there is a specific Spren that grants Dullform on purpose...)

Anyway, all the Rhythms are a Spiritual thing(confirmed via the WoB Extesian posted yesterday) and they all exist simultaneously. Some Forms grant new Rhythms (Stormform grants access to the Rhythm of Derision, for example) and some Rhythms get.. replaced(upgraded?) when you adopt a new Form. Anticipation became Craving, /something/ became Spite, etc..

I don't think Stormform blocked access to any of the old rhythms, except for the ones that got replaced. Going from Stormform back to Warform would block access to the new rhythms granted by the former.

3 hours ago, Radiant_Jaeger said:

Also if there are forms of Odium are there also forms of Honor? Or will this be how Eshonai gets to become a Radiant she will adopt a spren of Honor... (or cultivation) Maybe that's why they think the Spren betrayed them because the forms of power that were once available through cultivation and honor were instead given to humans as surges through the Nahel bond

Well, its entirely possible for a Listener to bond an Honor/Cultivation Spren since they can bond an Odium Spren. If (and How) Eshonai could become a Radiant is the subject of many theories on here.