kais Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 TWD is dark adult fantasy, and also likely the result of being forced to watch too much Disney recently, thanks to my two year old daughter. This is draft zero. I’m sorry for that. Everything and anything is open to edits, but at this stage LBLs are less useful than overall feelings about tension, character development, text flow, etc. This is also my first experiment with first person, so be warned there. Also be warned that I am delving much deeper into #ownvoices land with the protag than I usually do. I tried really hard to have S emote better in this installment. Please tell me I’m at least making progress! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kais Posted March 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 7 hours ago, Ernei said: Also, sniffing romance here I'm a great lover of romance, and perpetually disappointed to not find the variety I like in speculative fiction (because I don't like romance novels, per se). Hence, I write what I want to read. 7 hours ago, Ernei said: but this sudden change of mood clashes with M. laughing just lines above. It's meant to clash, so yay! 7 hours ago, Ernei said: clashes with what we know, or at least with what I remember. Yeah, I agree here. Since it is addressed earlier, I've removed this section. 7 hours ago, Ernei said: I don't want to talk much, though My knowledge of guilds is based off of historic German carpentry guilds, and modern US incarnations. It's fantasy, so I have some leeway here, but if I veer too far off course, I hope you'll help me navigate back! 7 hours ago, Ernei said: It's kinda what I expect to happen, although it would be cool to see it subverted, either He is an early red herring, and nothing more. I'm 60K into writing this book and he has yet to reappear. 7 hours ago, Ernei said: I wonder if using the term "regent" is correct here. Probably not. It's a placeholder. I'm open to other names. In fact, I think I like 'royal consort' a lot more. 7 hours ago, Ernei said: TBH, that's kinda quick to me. Well, the attraction is quick. 60K in and no one has kissed anyone yet so... 7 hours ago, Ernei said: Couldn't S. simply stand up? Sure, but what fun is that? 7 hours ago, Ernei said: It seems odd to me that neither M. nor S. consider this possibility. Oooh, good idea! 7 hours ago, Ernei said: although I'm not that thrilled at the prospect of S.'s display. It's not shown, so no worries. Thank you! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski he/him Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Comments. Super engaging opening to the chapter. The sense of renewal is palpable. This new bent for description that you have is paying off in spades. “I wanted to toss the entire thing into the fireplace and light the match myself.” – Great passage ending with this that tells me as much about guilds as anything that has gone before. “The triarchy of Perrin” – Some time ago, I made a strong recommendation to someone who had this name in their story. I can’t remember who now, but using a name straight out of Wheel of Time, the Lord of Two Rivers no less, is best avoided, I think; you might as well call one of your characters Frodo. (Ok, I exaggerate for effect, but still…) “I sipped at my drink as I thought about Iro’s breasts, and Mag’s reaction” – This is very ‘on the nose’ for me, I think you could subtle-ify it some. “since Mag was clearly enjoying everything else of interest” – same here, I feel like you’re pushing this aspect too hard. “Double handfuls, easily.” “She has very nice breasts” – no, you’ve lost me. Maybe as a small rebalancing of the avalanche of male-gaze this works, but as characterisation it feels like bludgeoning to me. “she could have chosen a bar with properly made furniture” – Lol, seems very much in character for Sor. “Are you a man?” – This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules? In the space of a paragraph, Mag has gone from sensitive, caring friend of childhood to crass, boorish, hurtful lout; it’s just not the same person. “I grinned as I pushed past her” – this jarred for me; I do not take Sor as a grinner, on evidence to date. “I smiled sweetly at her” – and this. I feel like the transformation of Sor’s demeanour from miserable and defensive to gleeful and exuberant is tough to take. I enjoyed this chapter a good deal, there was information on various different aspects of character and setting that was satisfying to learn. My biggest, in fact only real bugbear was the emotional tone between Sor and Mag, which I felt was off beam in places. I really didn’t think it was WRS on my part. I don’t mind Mag being the way she was at the end of the chapter, but I didn’t get any sense of that from the original encounter. Nice work – I think it’s clear as day you are much more comfortable in this ‘non-tech’ setting than in the world(s) of Ard. I am keenly anticipating future submissions. Don’t you dare stop submitting till the end. <R> 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandamon he/him Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Figured I should give this another read through! I like the changes that accentuate the #ownvoices sections. Helps to club those of us with less exposure into what you're doing with the story and characters. Notes while reading: pg 3: "Instead of responding" --but S did respond, last paragraph pg 4:"Ervin had taught me to color theory" --what is this? --also, glad to see more guild info here. pg 4: Regent vs. Consort: I'd vote for "Consort" as well. Regent says to me someone who is taking over for immature royalty, which Magda isn't. pg 5/6: I like this exchange better. Asking about S's gender directly gives those readers with not as much a clue something to hang on to. pg 8: "That this had all been a misunderstanding." --meaning Mother's dissapearance, or the kidnapping, or what? pg 9: "Of course, there had been no need for M to become a smith, as she was already the Royal Daughter" --So does this mean the queen is also a smith? pg 10: "I have a number of other guild masters housed at the palace right now, our own in-house masters are still safe." --But wasn't the queen abducted from the palace? Why is it deemed safe? pg 12: "The queen isn’t a high priority right now. The masters are. " --Eh? I would think both would be very high priorities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kais Posted March 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 19 hours ago, Robinski said: and light the match myself Reading this, I had to check to make sure I was in the right period for matches to exist. I am. Whew. 19 hours ago, Robinski said: I think; you might as well call one of your characters Frodo. In my defense, I have never read the Wheel Of Time, but yes, I can certainly change it! Perrin is now 'Puget', until I think of something better. 19 hours ago, Robinski said: “I sipped at my drink as I thought about Iro’s breasts, and Mag’s reaction” – This is very ‘on the nose’ for me, I think you could subtle-ify it some. “since Mag was clearly enjoying everything else of interest” – same here, I feel like you’re pushing this aspect too hard. “Double handfuls, easily.” “She has very nice breasts” – no, you’ve lost me. Maybe as a small rebalancing of the avalanche of male-gaze this works, but as characterisation it feels like bludgeoning to me. Ah, here is where we hit some queer culture. @Mandamon slipped here too, on first read, if I recall. It is very on the nose, because A) I want M to be a little bit of a letch and B.) I wanted readers familiar with some aspects of lesbian culture to identify with her. It's good to hear about your reaction, because I know the forwardness sometimes of this particular culture would not fly in a heterosexual setting, and so it should ring strange to anyone not familiar with the culture. I guess the real question is, is it enough to throw you from the narrative, and/or to keep you from reading more, or can you pass through it on the strength of the rest of the text? I want to be true to the #ownvoices nature of the story, but not alienate heterosexual readers, either. 19 hours ago, Robinski said: “Are you a man?” – This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules? In the space of a paragraph, Mag has gone from sensitive, caring friend of childhood to crass, boorish, hurtful lout; it’s just not the same person. I think I missed a transition sentence between the previous line and the question. Upon rereading, it doesn't read the way I intended. Going to fix now (although the very direct question will stay, hopefully better integrated as to better showcase that M is trying to be respectful, she just lacks tact). I think this is a line I'm going to continue to play with through the book, so your comments are extremely helpful, @Robinski, at helping me see where I need to better explain that there is a culture at play here, inside the fantasy. 19 hours ago, Robinski said: I do not take Sor as a grinner, on evidence to date Hrm. Yes, I can see this. Will play with emoting more here. Thank you so much! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kais Posted March 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 9 hours ago, Mandamon said: but S did respond, last paragraph Aheh... forgot to delete that 9 hours ago, Mandamon said: what is this? Nerdy world building for scientists! Color theory started evolving right around the time chemistry was starting to edge out from alchemy in the western world. Brace yourself. The book only gets nerdier. 9 hours ago, Mandamon said: meaning Mother's dissapearance, or the kidnapping, or what? Shall clear up 9 hours ago, Mandamon said: So does this mean the queen is also a smith? No. I need to better address this 9 hours ago, Mandamon said: But wasn't the queen abducted from the palace? Why is it deemed safe? Ignore the plot hole. Just back away, slowly. Nothing to see here. Nope. Nothing at all. *runs to fix* 9 hours ago, Mandamon said: Eh? I would think both would be very high priorities. Do the sentences after not explain this well enough? Do I need to add a bit more? Thanks for having another read through! I think this is much better than when you read through it, but I'm also getting a better handle on the plot and M's character right now, too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski he/him Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 3 hours ago, kaisa said: Perrin is now 'Puget' Lol - I like that. Setting aside the WoT connection, Perrin is not a very interesting name, kind of fantasy generic. 3 hours ago, kaisa said: she just lacks tact I note everything you say. All very interesting, I'm going back to read your response again. The coffee shop where I park myself 75% of my mornings to write is managed by an individual who I suspect from their (camp) manner is as gay as the day is long. I'm only trying to say that I encounter regularly and could not be less bothered by the (over?) friendly, outgoing, ebullient and (arguably) 'forward' manner that sometimes comes with different sexuality. Actually, I like it, because I am an innately shy person and it brings my out into conversation. My problem with Mag was not the lack of tact, goodness knows I'm working with such a character myself atm(!), but just that I thought where she ended up was inconsistent with her introduction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandamon he/him Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 10 hours ago, kaisa said: Nerdy world building for scientists! Color theory started evolving right around the time chemistry was starting to edge out from alchemy in the western world. Brace yourself. The book only gets nerdier. A bit torn on this. Your other books do it too, dropping scientific jargon. On the one hand I like it, because it makes me look up cool and interesting new things, but on the other, I wonder if it throws readers out of the story without a little bit of explanation. Especially with something like alchemy, where most people nowadays have no clue about it. A Discovery of Witches by Deborah Harkness, if I recall, has a lot of very scientific alchemical terms, but there is usually a sentence or two to shore them up. 10 hours ago, kaisa said: Ignore the plot hole. Just back away, slowly. Nothing to see here. Nope. Nothing at all. *runs to fix* Lol. Glad I wasn't remembering that wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski he/him Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 10 hours ago, kaisa said: The book only gets nerdier. Yay!! 17 minutes ago, Mandamon said: a lot of very scientific alchemical terms, but there is usually a sentence or two to shore them up. Yep, I agree with @Mandamon (Ooh, feels like a while since I said that - normal service has been resumed ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kais Posted March 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 18 hours ago, Robinski said: I thought where she ended up was inconsistent with her introduction. Oh, very fair. I'm going back into this tonight to see if I can smooth it out. 12 hours ago, Mandamon said: sentence or two to shore them up. Hrm, I'd be willing to do this. Might need to be in version one though. I think if I went back now to fix I'd get lost in the details. Keep flagging, please, and I'll get them all noted. Thanks, both of you! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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