WORDS OF RADIANCE SPOILERS - Adolin's Consequences in "Oathbringer"

[DSC01 he/him]

@maxal That's a good point about the story not coming together without Adolin because of all of the secretiveness on the parts of the other protagonists, but the end of WoR really changed the status quo on that. The reasons for the primary characters to avoid talking to each other are beginning to evaporate, while Adolin now has a major secret of his own (which will be a huge reversal for the until-now very open and honest character).

Sure, Shallan still has the Ghostbloods to keep secret (and we don't know yet that she will, even if it seems likely), but she can now be open about her powers. Dalinar can confidently explain his visions as not being insanity, and with Sadeas gone, it will be easier for him to be blunt and open--which is his actual personality, remember--without worrying about being maneuvered into compromising positions. Kaladin's reticence was in large part based on an irrational worry that the lighteyes would find a way to take away his Radiancy. He is certainly on the road to getting over that. Renarin obviously has a lot going on that he's keeping from others, but he now has a reason to open up a little. Jasnah's conclusions about the Parshendi, previously considered laughable, is mainstream now. Most of the secrets that she uncovered are no longer bizarre notions that no one is interested in listening to. Whatever secrets she chooses to maintain, she going to be a lot more open to freely dispensing her knowledge now that red-eyed monsters are tearing the continent apart and she knows things that might help.

It looks like Adolin has carried us to the point in the overall narrative where he is no longer necessary to keep the story from being all about separate parties who won't talk to each other. And developments in his personal arc mean that he is no longer quite as well suited to that role. Until we read Oathbringer, we won't know exactly what that means, but the possibility remains that he is approaching a place where he will get in the way of the other moving parts in the story. I maintain that, if this is the case, he has become too important to just kill off. Exile is a great way to handle that. It can take him out of the story for a little while, and things can be engineered to allow him to return eventually without the stigma of him getting away with killing a Highprince without any punishment.

[Guest]

@maxal

To be honest, I never really thought about how much Adolin was/is necessary to bringing all the characters together. And thanks to @DSC01 for giving an argument why Adolin isn't completely necessary anymore.

I am so glad I joined this forum right now.

[Guest]

I fear we have gone from arguing as to which consequences Adolin might face for murdering Sadeas as to whether he should remain a character within the story at all...  I personally find it baffling it should even be argued the character ranking himself in fourth place, when it comes to page time/word count, should continue or not to evolve within the story. 

I obviously cannot argue against personal tastes and I am fully aware not everyone cares as much about Adolin's character as I do, but I can state he has been an integral part of the story since WoK. While it is true characters sometimes come and go, it usually happens after their arc is done or has reached a satisfying conclusion. Adolin is nowhere near either: his has barely begun his journey. Hence any suggestion he should go onto A Long Bus Ride (see TVTropes) because it appears more convenient to remove him from the main narrative than to give him a decent character arc is strange to read. Especially for a character having such a strong sympathy capital most readers expect to read more of, not less.

Unfortunately, if I haven't convinced anyone within my quite lengthy posts (thanks to the courageous who read through it all!), I fear I might not get any additional arguments to sway more hearts. The essential of my argumentation as whether or not Adolin is required within the main narrative relies on him being an interesting, different, unique character offering a perspective which changes drastically from the existing ones preventing him from feeling superfluous. I have advocated Brandon chosen narrative made it so he had to rely on a cast of protagonists all bearing similar behavioral characteristics such as being close-guarded, secretive, introspective and in some cases deceiving. While there is nothing wrong with finding those elements within a few characters, I find the main narrative would be tedious to read, slow going and redundant if we didn't have Adolin to break the pace. While @DSC01 argues our characters have spilled their secrets concerning their Radiant status which should remove the stalling I am referring to, I fear what caused it remains. As it wasn't the secret which caused Shallan/Kaladin/Dalinar/Renarin/Jasnah not to share their respective knowledge, it was their own personality and this is unlikely to change. Each one of those characters isn't naturally prone towards talking to others, sharing, voicing their deepest thoughts and all are extremely cautious when it comes to trusting others. It is why a character such as Adolin is even more important: he offers some balance within a cast designed to exhibit several similarities.

Removing Jasnah/Renarin and adding Adolin might have solve WoK Prime's problem, but putting it back as it used to in Oathbringer, or any future book, would bring back the issue in its entirety. Especially considering Jasnah/Renarin's arc in WoK Prime will still happen, but at a later time and with likely a few modifications. These characters are very introspective and they add themselves to a cast solely comprised of other introspective characters. In the case of Renarin, I would add his character is self-bashing, self-pitying and self-loathing which is likely to form a narrative arc similar sounding to Kaladin even if his triggers are completely different. Epic fantasy relies on an ensemble cast as opposed to one single protagonist and ensemble cast work if they are various and diversified. As it currently is formed of characters of various backgrounds with different powers but similar personalities or at least similar enough to create several internal story arcs. There is nothing wrong with internal arcs, except when each one of your protagonists have one. You need character to externalize some of it, you need character won't work towards withholding information just because it is within their personality patterns.

This being said, above the role Adolin has fulfill within the main narrative, above whether or not it is desirable to keep on reading him, there is the simple fact a non-negligible percentage of readers want to read Adolin. Reactions to his character were, for the most parts, positive and despite him not being a "Radiant" or fulfilling a "function" (characters exist for reasons other than checking a box down a list), he has become one of the most popular character within the story and one of the most anticipated read. Adolin definitely has a place to play within the main narrative, even better, he already is part of the main narrative. He earned it.

To me, this is all the argument I need  so why not focus on story arcs likely to give his character added depth as opposed to ones where he is non-existent?

[Lord Joped]

On 3/13/2017 at 4:32 PM, king of nowhere said:

he may have a nervous breakdown, which may allow him to develop a nahel bond - possibly with his sword, possibly with some other spren.

I'm not sure about the full resurrection of a shard blade, but I notice that Adolin has an emotional attachment to his sword. One of his pre-duel rituals is "Talked to your sword?" "A whole conversation." This might lead to his bonded spren knowing a lot about him, due to his conversations with his sword.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Lord Joped

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Lord Joped said:

I'm not sure about the full resurrection of a shard blade, but I notice that Adolin has an emotional attachment to his sword. One of his pre-duel rituals is "Talked to your sword?" "A whole conversation." This might lead to his bonded spren knowing a lot about him, due to his conversations with his sword.

Oh there is a lot to say about this... This one has been one favored theory, though it has been losing traction lately.

To make it short, many of us feel Adolin talking to his Blade, treating it as a partner as opposed to a tool, refusing to name it out of respect for what it once been and, more specifically, having him speak of it as an "extension of his soul" has made several of us deeply wish he would perform the impossible deed and revive it. Brandon has also confirmed it wasn't completely impossible, though very hard as Adolin would have to say the right oaths and "do something else". We do not know how many oaths he would need to say, but most of us have settled on three which is the required number of an Edgedancer spren to achieve Blade form. We all agree figuring out the oaths, saying it. meaning them without the guidance of a spren would be terribly difficult not to mention slightly odd as no way Adolin would purposefully attempt at reviving his own Blade: everyone thinks it is impossible. It would thus need to happen during one of his "conversation".

Needless to say "Adolin's Shardblade" has been a RAFO, though Brandon did say he wish for this story arc to play out naturally. It isn't a confirmation, but it seems to go into the right direction. 

As you can see, not all of us agree on where Adolin should go, as a character, within the story. Some feel he isn't needed anymore, some would prefer if he never made it to Radiant. For my part, I think the "Blade revival" potential story arc would be perfect for his character: it has a slow arc which fits with Adolin's current positioning within the main narrative. It allows him to be the "powerless" character for a while as it wouldn't happen instantaneously: he would thus fulfill this role. It also allows Adolin's story arc to revolve around a given magic no other character can expose which is bond to please those who feels the story should only revolve around magical characters. It also gives him a greater "function" than those I have exposed, so all in all, it seems as a pretty good story arc.

Some of us wouldn't want Adolin to become a Radiant if it isn't through his Shardblade. Oh and welcome to the forum. 

[king of nowhere]

@ maxal, two short remarks:

1) it's not a matter of convincing people here that adolin is important, as many people are already convinced. it's a matter of convincing brandon. you could try talking to him at some signing or convention

2) re: adolin reviving his blade theory: the reason that theory is losing traction lately is that brandon keep saying he don't want to explore adolin in detail. and since reviving a spren sort of implies an adolin-centered story, it becomes less likely.

Oh, by the way, did anyone wonder if brandon is just deceiving us to cover spoilers? I mean, he kept telling that there would be only five alcatraz books, after all. I wouldn't put it past him to downplay the role of adolin to make the sword revival more surprising

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

@ maxal, two short remarks:

1) it's not a matter of convincing people here that adolin is important, as many people are already convinced. it's a matter of convincing brandon. you could try talking to him at some signing or convention

2) re: adolin reviving his blade theory: the reason that theory is losing traction lately is that brandon keep saying he don't want to explore adolin in detail. and since reviving a spren sort of implies an adolin-centered story, it becomes less likely.

Oh, by the way, did anyone wonder if brandon is just deceiving us to cover spoilers? I mean, he kept telling that there would be only five alcatraz books, after all. I wouldn't put it past him to downplay the role of adolin to make the sword revival more surprising

I write for the benefit of all people, both commentators and silent lurkers, who might be interested in reading me. I might not convince those I am discussing with as each is entitled to his own opinion, but I may help sway the indecisive. 

There is nothing I wish more than the opportunity to expose to Brandon all of my Adolin character analysis and theory making, if only to show him how much some of his readers do care about the character, but I am missing the means. I wouldn't hope to change his mind, but I would love to make him perhaps more aware of how active some of his Adolin fans are. I would me immensely honored and pleased but there just no possibilities for me to do so.

I know why the theory is losing traction... Brandon has sent mixed messages when it comes to Adolin, but he has yet to explain why he appears to have reduce this story arc within Oathbringer when it has been made obvious across the entire fandom his was one very anticipated read. He even acknowledged being aware of how many fans wanted to read it and yet... He is proposing a book, which I haven't read, where Adolin seems to have a smaller role than in previous ones. He has yet to find ways to reassure the numerous Adolin fans the character will be worth reading. This seems to be the major issue: Adolin fans are utterly disappointed within the book 3 structure, but the author has not seen fit to address himself to them. 

Brandon is always careful in his answers... Adolin is one massive RAFO: he won't spill the beans until the book is out. Someone asked, not too long ago, if Adolin would grow on him as Spook did, thus earning him a major arc despite not being planned. He said RAFO... He didn't say no, so it may be he is deceiving us, he certainly won't barge in here stating Adolin had an amazing arc coming in which involves his Blade... This will not happen.

I however wish he would just acknowledge the contribution the Adolin fandom has had to the Stormlight Archive fandom: this character and those of us who love him has generated more conversation topics than any other character. This contribution is by no way small, but I feel it is constantly over-looked and ignored by Brandon's team. A bit of recognition would be nice, but this sounds horribly selfish of me to say it, so I may just continue to work within the shadow. Hopefully, my worries are silly and Adolin does have a great arc, Brandon did say he had one, I just worry about how big (or how small) it might be.

[+Extesian he/him]

I don't know if Adolin will revive his blade. But if he does my money is on the spren being named Maxal.

[+Wax he/him]

Can a dead spren come back as some other kind?  Zombie spren 

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Extesian said:

I don't know if Adolin will revive his blade. But if he does my money is on the spren being named Maxal.

I'd be deeply honored if he were to name the Blade after me, but I think it more likely it has a name such as Astrid or Lilith  

[Darkness he/him]

Maybe its name is Shshshshsh... Mind = Blown.

[Krandacth]

Back on the original topic, on a rerereread of WoR, I came across this nugget that I'm not sure has been mentioned. It seems to set out exactly what the consequences for Adolin will be:

Quote

Killing the man right here, right now, would likely earn Adolin an execution—or at least an exile.

- Brandon Sanderson, WoR chp. 50

So, unless the Alethi legal system has collapsed post-Everstorm and everything is now based purely on Dalinar's judgement, this is what can be expected, and what Ialai et al. will feel justified in calling for. Assuming he does get found guilty, and isn't executed, exile has been foreshadowed for Adolin.

[Kplynch21 he/him]

I have a feeling that Adolin will have more trouble with Nale because he actually broke the law and Nale is very mentally unstable.

[DSC01 he/him]

@Kplynch21 I don't think that chasing down criminals is going to be a priority for Nalan anymore. He already was only going after nascent Surgebinders, but now, who even knows what he's going to be doing? I can't explain myself too much without getting into Edgedancer spoilers, but if you've read it, I assume that you know what I'm talking about.

[Kplynch21 he/him]

4 hours ago, DSC01 said:

@Kplynch21 I don't think that chasing down criminals is going to be a priority for Nalan anymore. He already was only going after nascent Surgebinders, but now, who even knows what he's going to be doing? I can't explain myself too much without getting into Edgedancer spoilers, but if you've read it, I assume that you know what I'm talking about.

 

Yeah, I have, but I am still very wary about what the Heralds are going to be doing because right now they almost seem like the enemy, and are way too insane to be trusted. Nale and Szeth worship order, and if Adolin breaks order, they're not the most sane people to pass judgement 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Krandacth said:

Back on the original topic, on a rerereread of WoR, I came across this nugget that I'm not sure has been mentioned. It seems to set out exactly what the consequences for Adolin will be:

So, unless the Alethi legal system has collapsed post-Everstorm and everything is now based purely on Dalinar's judgement, this is what can be expected, and what Ialai et al. will feel justified in calling for. Assuming he does get found guilty, and isn't executed, exile has been foreshadowed for Adolin.

This isn't the first time this is brought forward. While it is obvious Brandon wants us to know what the punishment might be, I doubt he means for this passage to be pure foreshadowing. It is way too obvious. Also, this extract's importance is generally reduce with the following WoB:

QUESTION

So Words of Radiance… [paper crumpling; Adolin?] ...killed by… [crumpling; Sadeas?] … knife through the eye [crumpling] … worked so hard, I mean like does that change him in any way [?]

BRANDON SANDERSON

You will have to read on and see where it goes, and it’s certainly not something his father would have done, but at the same time, ah, I think there is a legitimate moral argument that what he did was right. I think there’s a legitimate one. I’m not saying it won’t change him or stuff, but there is a legitimate argument.

It is thus there might be a legitimate argument to be made Adolin was in his right to kill Sadeas... Arguably, there will be those who'd want to see Adolin pay the maximum sentence, but it might not be up to them to decide the punishment and there might not be any official punishment if the proof assembled against Adolin isn't strong enough or if the accusers feel they might not win. In other words, for exile to be, a trial needs to be made and for a trial to exist, one must formulate official accusations. Adolin's guilt might be known to all, he might even state it out loud, but if the Sadeas's princedom doesn't press charges, it might put Adolin in a similar situation as Sadeas in WoR: everyone knows he did it, but nobody can prove it decently enough to publicly accuse him without risking retribution.

Hence, it might be up to Ialai. It might be her who gets to decide if Adolin is trialed for murdering her husband... or not. 

Why wouldn't Ialai want to trial, execute and/or exile Adolin?

Because revenge is a poor compensation for her husband's death and while she might desire it, if she is half the cunning woman I take her to be, she will first try to secure her assets. We have seen, with Navani, how wifes of former political high ranked men rapidly fall within political irrelevance once their husbands pass away. As far as we can tell, Ialai lives and breaths out of manipulating the game, out-thinking her enemies and cunningly plan for her husband's advancement. Losing Sadeas means she has not only lost her closest confident and ally, she has also lost all strings she might have previously hold. Oh, she will be cared for, but she won't be a player anymore and this, this might harm her more than losing her husband.

It might thus be Ialai's best interests won't be avenging Sadeas's death, but securing her future. Sadeas dying is tragic but, at least, he died given her leverage: the son of the most influential man in Alethkar did it. If she is as smart, cunning and manipulating as she was depicted, it would be more clever if she were to use the event to prevent her own downfall. 

She is a woman, how can she remain relevant, without a husband?

I see two paths. The first one is she demands Adolin forfeits all Shards he owns, including his personal ones, to her. Owning so many Shards would definitely give Ialai all the political power she needs to ensure her future. She could easily bestow them onto her champions, she could even bond the Blades and lent them. The second path involves her striking a deal with Sadeas's right man and presumably the most influential of his lords, Amaram himself. She might even go as far as to marry him, asking of Dalinar to remove his accusations against him in exchange for her dropping hers against Adolin. With Amaram most likely being the next Highprince, she would not only regain her status, if she double plays Dalinar and get Adolin's Shards, then she and Amaram might become the most powerful couple in Alethkar.

Really, the way I see it, merely exiling Adolin does nothing for Ialai: it does not serve her best interests, it merely is a short-term consolation. Besides, once she secures her position, nothing prevents her from sending assassins to get her revenge.

This is just one other reason why I feel the exile story arc hardly is the most interesting path to steer Adolin's character, for the benefit of the entire main narrative. 

Something else which I have sen brought forward recently... The king's writ allowing Adolin to dispose of his father shall he become unstable, Obviously people are arguing Adolin would actually enforce it, which I sincerely do not think will ever happen. Adolin has no interest nor desire to do such thing: it would be completely out-of-character for him to behave in such way. I would however point out the exact wording of the writ aren't known to us and I doubt it says Adolin Kholin specifically has the right to enforce it. It probably says the next in line, which is a much broader term. And what is Dalinar's line of inheritance? Adolin, Renarin and... Elhokar.

Now, who has the most to gain from removing Dalinar? 

Elhokar. Dalinar is the one reason he isn't able to truly lead Alethkar and once his uncle is known as a Radiant, he might think it best to remove him. He might very well reason Radiants are crazy, unstable (after all isn't Vorinism strongly against them thus giving him support of the Ardentia in his Holy Mission and since Elhokar already believes being king is a divine appointment...). He could very well toss Renarin away using the same argument, so all which stands in between him and the legal right to enforce the writ is... Adolin. So what if he could get Dalinar to disinherit (or Dalinar might do it anyway on his own volition), he would then become the next in line and thus cut the grass under his uncle's feet by removing him from the Alethi political apparel.

This is one other ramification I have thought of. Elhokar isn't a bad man, he isn't evil, but what he perceives as Alethkar's best interests might not align with Dalinar's and he might have gain enough backbone, after staying with Lopen's mother and talking to Kaladin, to do something about it.

3 hours ago, Kplynch21 said:

Yeah, I have, but I am still very wary about what the Heralds are going to be doing because right now they almost seem like the enemy, and are way too insane to be trusted. Nale and Szeth worship order, and if Adolin breaks order, they're not the most sane people to pass judgement 

Nale is a wild-card who's interest might not put him within close proximity of Adolin. I suspect he'll want answer now... His path might not be going to Urithiru to slay the Highprince's son.

[DSC01 he/him]

I really don't see Nale getting involved in this particular issue, unless he perceives that Dalinar, as de facto leader of the Knights Radiant, is derelict in his duty by ignoring his son's lawbreaking. This, again, is a reason that exile might make sense for Adolin. If he is punished according to the law, then Nalan will stay out of it completely. 

And, keep in mind, I'm not advocating for Adolin to be removed from the story entirely. The main thrust of my argument is that Adolin has become important to the story, and he needs to stick around somehow. If he's getting in the way of the narrative (and I only think that this might be the case because we all know that he would be dead by now if the original story outline had been followed), then my preference is for him to be exiled and go off to grow as a character "offscreen" so that he can return as a major player--as opposed to just being unceremoniously killed off. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, DSC01 said:

I really don't see Nale getting involved in this particular issue, unless he perceives that Dalinar, as de facto leader of the Knights Radiant, is derelict in his duty by ignoring his son's lawbreaking. This, again, is a reason that exile might make sense for Adolin. If he is punished according to the law, then Nalan will stay out of it completely. 

And, keep in mind, I'm not advocating for Adolin to be removed from the story entirely. The main thrust of my argument is that Adolin has become important to the story, and he needs to stick around somehow. If he's getting in the way of the narrative (and I only think that this might be the case because we all know that he would be dead by now if the original story outline had been followed), then my preference is for him to be exiled and go off to grow as a character "offscreen" so that he can return as a major player--as opposed to just being unceremoniously killed off. 

There are new developments within the wonderful world of Adolin  

Brandon actually wrote a flashback sequence for him... Recently. In between somewhere and Germany, he wrote one flashback scene for Adolin. It was very short, but he implies what comes next had too many spoilers for him to read. He nonetheless wrote a flashback for Adolin. For me, this is ground breaking news as I never expected he would ever do it: he seemed completely against it, but it seems he changed his mind. I suspect it might have come out of the beta read, but I have no confirmation.

We also have this new WoB:

Q: Will Dalinar punish Adolin for killing Sadeas?

A: He doesn’t know. Nobody knows… If he knew, he’d probably will.

I am unsure how to interpret it, the question is about the future but the answer speaks of the present tense. It however rules out any potential speculation where there might have been witness, not that we ever thought there were, but just in case...

As for the exile story arc, despite myself strongly disliking it, I doubt Brandon would go down this way for the simple reason he is already going with it for Szeth: he won't use the same trope for two characters. It seems redundant. Too unlike Brandon. 

[joesleepsalot he/him]

The fact that Sadeas is dead does Dalinar huge favors; regardless of the means. Sadeas is the one in Dalinar's way, he's the main antagonist who's ruined Dalinar's reputation and nearly the sole source for the lack of unity in Alethkar. How many are dead because of him? How's that "unity" goal, or lack thereof, due to Sadeas? Because of him, al the other nations have heard of Dalinar in a negative "he's crazy" context. I think if we look at Sadeas' death through that lens, then Adolin's "consequences" are a lot easier to determine. As for Adolin's actions:

Froma militaristic point of view, specifically the Rules of Engagement, the right to self defense is never denied. Ever. Also, hostile intent IS enough to use force against someone. Brandon seems to use the US Army's command structure and Rank-to-Unit equivalencies, so I'm assuming that he at least knows the ROE and all that.

With that said: EVERYONE knows Sadeas is a Judas. Huge traitor. Kaladin as witness (whether he's there or not at the time of any trial, that's speculative anyways regardless of the excerpt about his trip home) to his admission of treachery on his bridge at the end of WoK. Everyone knows.... plus Sadeas deserved to die simply due to his treatment of bridgemen. PLUS Sadeas, right before he is killed, tells Adolin's that he intends to redouble his efforts. I'd have killed the dude too; his "efforts" equate to murders of the Kholin's household. To the armchair generals out there and sofa judges, would you, as Adolin, not attack that dude? Lol. If you say "no", I call BS. Your dad, brother, fiancée, friends, and yourself are sure to get poisoned, stabbed or worse. Self defense, hostile intent. Honestly, who cares that Adolin killed him, that's the equivalent to the execution of Bin Laden by the Seal. Seriously, lol no one cared, the murdering b****** deserved it. 

I predict Adolin will become a Stormward.... sure he's a "murderer", but he did bring justice---- just rogue justice. We know some spren are attracted to that. Remember his 4 way duel? "And STORMS he was good". Even Kaladin was impressed. Adolin may not be a main character, but he's been invested in way too much by Brandon to just disappear or become the next Kaladin (trodden over And beat down). 

And let's not forget Shallan---- who got away with murdering her own mom. She's a KR, a professional con artist and liar, with a bonded Spren. Oh and she loves Adolin. Anyone here think she'll give two cents that he killed the biggest D bag in Alethkar? Anyone think that she'll just let him get tossed aside? Oh plus Kaladin likes him.... and Jasnah is his cousin....the only ones I see trying to bring down Adolin are weaklings who don't matter anyways. He will play an important role in the biggest war of their time.... id say that with Stormlight, he and Kaladin would be the best warriors in the cosmere. 

My two cents. 

[+Wax he/him]

Adolin's character gives me the same sense as Ellend Venture.  Just ripe to be handed powers on a platter.  Although, I think it might be using a different mechanism than the standard KR oaths (as I theorized above).

[Guest]

1 hour ago, joesleepsalot said:

And let's not forget Shallan---- who got away with murdering her own mom. She's a KR, a professional con artist and liar, with a bonded Spren.

That was true self-defense. Her mother was in the process of killing Shallan.

1 hour ago, joesleepsalot said:

Oh and she loves Adolin.

Now, does she really? I remember most of her kisses with Adolin were very forced and she is prone to lying to herself. We'll see how it pans out, but I sense a lot of confusion coming.

For the rest of your arguments: I don't buy the hostile intent argument. It might be so in the army, but we're talking about the whole social construct of Alethkar. They are warriors, not backstabbers. Sure, Sadeas was a traitor and his death will help Dalinars cause, but that doesn't mean Dalinar is happy about how Sadeas died. I can see him forgiving or postponing trial, because of a "state of emergency" or something.

Edited March 27, 2017 by SLNC

[Darkness he/him]

Too bad Adolin is so honorable. He could have kept Oathbringer and said Sadeas pulled it on him and tried to kill him.

[AngelEy3 he/him]

This thread has been slightly disappointing to me... More than 3 in 4 of these posts has been to talk about Adolin's "crime" instead of talking about Adolin's "justice." 

Sadeas deserved to die as much as anyone ever has. Where the law runs afoul of the heart, the heart is almost always in the right. Is it murder to snuff out a murderer? Is it "justice" to prosecute the vigilante who just made the world a better place? Adolin accomplished what the law failed to do for so long.... He stopped a treasonous, traitorous, murderous, slave trading, lying, son a slontze from continuing to be such. Full stop. 

[Krandacth]

3 hours ago, AngelEy3 said:

This thread has been slightly disappointing to me... More than 3 in 4 of these posts has been to talk about Adolin's "crime" instead of talking about Adolin's "justice." 

I think that's because pretty much everyone agrees that he was justified in what he did, for the reasons you say! :-) Unfortunately, Adolin seemed to think what he did was illegal; this is backed up by multiple opinions throughout the books regarding the convention of direct confrontation outside of duels or war being very unAlethi, to the point of illegality.

Therefore the justice and/or morality/ethicality of what he did is generally agreed and so needs no further discussion; The precise nature of the response to his actions by the Alethi, particularly if they will consider it a crime, and how severe a one, are much less clear, and so more interesting to theorise about!

[AngelEy3 he/him]

43 minutes ago, Krandacth said:

I think that's because pretty much everyone agrees that he was justified in what he did, for the reasons you say! :-) Unfortunately, Adolin seemed to think what he did was illegal; this is backed up by multiple opinions throughout the books regarding the convention of direct confrontation outside of duels or war being very unAlethi, to the point of illegality.

Therefore the justice and/or morality/ethicality of what he did is generally agreed and so needs no further discussion; The precise nature of the response to his actions by the Alethi, particularly if they will consider it a crime, and how severe a one, are much less clear, and so more interesting to theorise about!

Point made. I concede. Upvoted