20170220 - The Seeds of Dissolution - Ch5 - Mandamon - 4746

[Mandamon he/him]

Hello all,
Here is chapter 5, with the 3rd POV for the book, and Sam dealing with finding his home (With another anxiety attack). The first half of the chapter until the ellipsis is anxiety free.

NOTE: based on comments so far, I think I'm going to mix up parts of Ch3-6 to make the story flow better, but I still would like comments on how this chapter fits in with the whole so far.

Previously:
Ch1: Sam gets very cold, loses his aunt, and gets sucked through a hole
Ch2: Sam has a big freakout at the new world he's in, meets a strange alien
Ch3: Origon is baffled by Earth, Sam has a trip through the Imperium
Ch4: Sam rides a tram. Origon talks to the Council and takes an apprentice

Looking for:
-Connection to new characters and POV.
-Is Sam's anxiety believable?
-Does this answer questions about Earth vs. the Nether and homeworlds?
-anything else you see
 

[kais]

Don't know if its different than the last time but I'm reading anyway!

Overall

Much better flow this time, and I think you've added some transitions that really help. I like the starmap scene better, too!

Your questions

-Connection to new characters and POV.

No issues here, aside from those listed below

-Is Sam's anxiety believable?

I don't have this flavor of anxiety, so I don't think I'm qualified to answer this. It seems logical, but that really doesn't mean much from an outside perspective

-Does this answer questions about Earth vs. the Nether and homeworlds?

Yes, and while info dumpy, I enjoyed it, but I also like space stuff

 

As I go

- you have some punctuation fails in that first page

- At least she hadn’t been fool enough to ask Ori over the night before. That would have led places she wasn’t ready to go yet, and Ori should concentrate on that strange boy. Uh, hello random development. You need more time and description! This needs to be teased out at least another two sentences

- The Council wanted her tied down with work so she couldn’t make waves around Ori’s voids. This is a solid place to expand worldbuilding

- the reasons for getting Enos dumped on her are now much better defined, but I think I'd like it even more so, with more on the Ardor front. It'd be nice to see notes of fear about these people throughout all the chapters, to better lead to this

- The base was carved like twisting tree trunks, holding up a flat section of wood. I realize this is probably just me, but if the thing is a centerpiece then I'd like it much more dynamically explained. 

- page five: still a little hesitant on the dual protector/healer roles for your two women

- page seven: would he take a walk around the block back home?? That's outside...

- From what Sam could tell, Majus Cyrysi thought mentally changing notes of a ghostly Symphony was a science. This would be better if Cyrysi said it. I have a hard time seeing how Sam could intuit this

- page 13: LOL at intelligent bananas

 

[Mandamon he/him]

15 hours ago, Ernei said:

Also, you refer to E. more often as "the girl" than by her name, even though she introduced.

Yep-keep catching these. I'm trying to transition out of boy/girl which is used as a derogatory by the maji to apprentices, but I think also ages the characters down. This will get cleaned up in later drafts.

15 hours ago, Ernei said:

Also, I thought that a night has passed, since R. woke up, but now I'm confused. Does it mean that S. and C. have been walking for so long?

Hm...no, left S and C to get settled, but may need more transition here.

15 hours ago, Ernei said:

I didn't have any particular questions about Nether vs Earth, so I can't tell if any were answered. I want to know more about the politics behind the Council and about these creatures from the epigraphs, and perhaps R. and her interactions with her new apprentice can be fun to read. I don't care how far this world is from Earth, or how many inhabited planets there are.

Interesting. You'll definitely get a lot more of the political side in the next few chapters. I think @Hobbit was the other way and bounced off the politics but was concerned about Earth. Both are themes. Hopefully that's good and means this will attract a larger section of readers? *shrug*

Thanks @Ernei!

9 hours ago, kaisa said:

Don't know if its different than the last time but I'm reading anyway!

A little different, based on your feedback, so thanks for the re-read @kaisa!

9 hours ago, kaisa said:

Yes, and while info dumpy, I enjoyed it, but I also like space stuff

Seems I need to address this more. I'm hoping if I rearrange this earlier I can jump over some of the infodumping.

 

9 hours ago, kaisa said:

the reasons for getting Enos dumped on her are now much better defined, but I think I'd like it even more so, with more on the Ardor front

Agree. There's more on this later, but need to bring even more forward a few chapters. I'm also hoping rearranging will help this.

9 hours ago, kaisa said:

dual protector/healer roles for your two women

Heh--just finished a fight scene with R in Ch 10 that hopefully dispels some of this.

[rdpulfer he/him]

- Interesting break from Sam and Origion's story.

- They have yogurt in this world? It just wasn't a food I was expecting to see.

- I like Sam searching for Earth, and Cryrisis's responses. I particularly like that eight is apparently a good number of planets.

- I also really, really like the last line about Sam being forgetting his home. That particularly ups the stakes in a subtle, emotional way. 

[Mandamon he/him]

Thanks @rdpulfer!

Yes-they have yogurt. They have dairy, so other byproducts are bound to happen!

[rdpulfer he/him]

11 hours ago, Mandamon said:

Thanks @rdpulfer!

Yes-they have yogurt. They have dairy, so other byproducts are bound to happen!

I get that, but yogurt, as a food, seems a little too . . . Earth-like. I can see them having dairy byproducts like cheese and cream, but yogurt is hard for me to picture. But I know I'm probably nitpicking on this one. 

[Mandamon he/him]

4 minutes ago, rdpulfer said:

but yogurt is hard for me to picture.

If it helps, think of this more as Mid-Eastern or Indian varieties of yogurt. Usually spiced, sometimes drinkable. Yogurt is actually pretty old--about 7000 years!

[rdpulfer he/him]

4 minutes ago, Mandamon said:

If it helps, think of this more as Mid-Eastern or Indian varieties of yogurt. Usually spiced, sometimes drinkable. Yogurt is actually pretty old--about 7000 years!

But who is going want to eat 7000 year old yogurt? That sounds gross.

[Mandamon he/him]

2 minutes ago, rdpulfer said:

But who is going want to eat 7000 year old yogurt? That sounds gross

Lol. That's where the cheese comes from!

[Robinski he/him]

Looking forward to continuing down the path.

• I am enjoying the epigraphs once again. There is a lovely travelogue sort of tone to them which, I think first time around, I likened somewhat to the work of Jack Vance, which I adore. If anyone wants to bull-up their description, they could do a lot worse than reading Vance, maybe Araminta Station (space opera) or Lyonesse (fantasy).

• “as Fres buzzed off” – lol.

• “As she chewed, she watched the woman, who watched her back” – Are you referring to Eno as a woman? I’m going to have a big problem with that. Maybe it’s my perspective from where I’m sitting, but I’m not getting a strong enough message from her description to label her woman. Keeping her short, like she was when I read this before makes it twice as hard for me not to think of Eno as a girl. Even if she’s older than 20, I think young woman would be necessary. Also, kind of old to be an apprentice, or to use that word anyway.

• “in the girl’s posture” – or is it the line I have wrong, was the woman Rilan? Confused.

• “Caro was a solid person, a member of the Ben” – This makes Ben sound like a club or society rather than a race, I think.

• “Was the Nether getting into his head, keeping him from panicking? Possible, but he chose to believe his brain was rebooted, in a way.” – Okay, I can buy this. At this point, I wouldn’t mind if his culture shock was a bit stronger, but I accept that it could be a bit boring having Sam astonished all the time.

• While I’m on the subject, I thought Ril might be angrier at Fres, she seemed to accept her apprentice quite easily.

• The search for Earth with the starmap could do with some tightening up, I think, started to run a bit long, I thought. I believe the frustration, but maybe not so good if I'm starting to become frustrated myself.

I too was more interested in Ril’s encounter than Ori/Sam’s, but I don’t think you could (or would want to) avoid have the guys search for Earth, it’s a necessary step, since they are both invested in finding it. Very much a building chapter, which is fine by me.

<R>

[Mandamon he/him]

Thanks @Robinski! 

The new timeline (which I'm going to be doing this week instead of submitting) is that Ori gets Ril, but they take Sam directly to the starmap. Then the idea for apprenticing hits, which leads to the Council, I'm hoping this will work better for the chapter arcs, and also be cleaner on the worldbuilding. Should be able to tighten things up too.

Re: Sam being constantly surprised, yes I want to skip over some of the OMG-what-is-that-alien moments to clarify the plot, but I also don't want to shut him down as I explore the anxiety issue. Ugh. It's a delicate balance.

Eno = girl vs woman. Yeah, not decided on this. I just had 17yo nephew up to visit, and I still think of him as a boy. But I also don't want to be derogatory. I'm hoping "woman" and "man" will help age the younger characters up a bit vs. "girl" and "boy." Maybe I'll have to bite the bullet and go with "young [gender]," though I don't like that term as much. Sounds too formal to me.

[Robinski he/him]

9 hours ago, Mandamon said:

Maybe I'll have to bite the bullet and go with "young [gender]

I like the sounds of you plot shift, seems more dynamic. And yeah, young man/woman is more awkward, but seems to me strikes the right tone, from what you describe. Formal? I dunno, in dialogue, yes I think you're right, but in narrative seems just like a statement of fact.

[Hobbit]

I had a plane ride to catch up on some subs, so here's my catching up #2!

Overall:

I’m getting to know Sam and Cyr better, but I still have questions about Sam’s motivation to get home, and where his anxiety is stemming from (see below). Kir’s motivation is unclear to me as well.  I think I’m missing something about how apprentices work in this society. She resigns herself to having an apprentice so quickly for someone who hasn’t had one before.

I definitely learned more about the nether and the home worlds. Not sure I understand the nether, but I think that’s where I’m supposed to be.

As I go:

At least she hadn’t been fool enough to ask Ori over the night before. That would have led places she wasn’t ready to go yet,
This seems kind of random. I like the idea, but it comes out of the blue.

of the head of house apartment
Confusing

The girl’s head was held high,
Human, then?

“My brother and I were recently orphaned.” The girl finally spoke, her voice on the knife edge between control and grief
This seems a little… convenient. I’m suspicious something else is going on here.

Bottom of page 4: This entire scenario feels a little off to me. It seems odd that Ril could be forced to take an apprentice this easily. Can’t she bundle the girl off to “safety training” or “paperwork” or some other place holding thing that all apprentices have to do, while she processes and tries to fight it? Or can she just say “go settle into your rooms, we’re meeting at noon.” I don’t know why Ril invites her in and gives her breakfast. Did she always secretly want an apprentice? Is she lonely?

“He and I can help each other learn,” the girl said. “We have never been apart before. We are very close.”
I’m not getting a good sense from this girl. I keep thinking something’s off, as if she’s faking it. Half of me is wondering if she’s a spy from the fairy councilor.

Majus Cyrysi had volunteered the help of some sort of magical contraption, in the basement of the House of Communication.
This seems like a big deal for Sam -- they’re finding a way home! Right now it seems like an afterthought. (After reading the comments above, it seems like I'm the only one fixated on this. Hmm.)

like ice cubes stacked together without end.
"End" is repeated here.

The Kirian spared him a glance, seeming disappointed. Maybe Sam was supposed to be asking questions.
I like this - Sam is getting a feeling for Kir’s personality

The panic attack sounds good to me. I’ve never had a panic attack, but it feels authentic.

Sam still wore the same set of clothes, because he hadn’t gone out.
Does he even have other clothes?

He was stronger than that. “I want to get home.”
This sounds whiny. He knows Cyr is doing everything he can.

“Before I start to forget it.”
Sam hasn’t worried about this before, so I’m not sure why he says it now. I’m wondering why he isn’t expecting his home to be totally ruined by the cold, though. Getting back home is one thing, but why does he want to go back? Because it’s comfortable to him? Not anymore, it’s not, if it's still freezing.

Ending thoughts: so maybe I'm more fixated on this "getting home" thing than I should be. Maybe it's because I don't understand it. It makes sense to me that Sam would want to get home because he's worried about his home, and potentially wants to save it, or figure out what's going on, etc. Or because it's intrinsically attractive to him as a place of safety, despite him knowing it might still be really dangerous.

I suppose I'm putting myself in Sam's shoes and thinking: If this were me, I would be VERY worried about Earth. I would be asking the Majus what he thinks was happening there, what "drains" are usually like, how long they last, how big they are, and what the prospects are for all the people there. Not just how to get back. I keep feeling like Sam's thoughts are just in a different place from what I would expect, and maybe the answer to that is just: Sam is not me. Maybe I just have to get over myself! 

I do expect that Sam will try to make a new place of safety for himself in this world, maybe in the Majus's apartments or something. Maybe the Majus himself will become representative of safety for Sam. I'm curious to see how his anxiety plays out through the rest of the story.

Also, I think your new timeline sounds great.

I'm looking forward to the next chapter!

Edited March 6, 2017 by Hobbit
Forgot my italics due to Funfetti cupcakes coming out of the oven

[Mandamon he/him]

Thanks @Hobbit!

I'll be working on Rilan and Enos' meeting soon now, so very helpful comments.

I think I may have addressed some of your concerns by moving the starmap up a chapter, but I like the idea of Sam asking Origon for more information on how the Drains work (not that O really knows at this point).

2 hours ago, Hobbit said:

Maybe the Majus himself will become representative of safety for Sam.

This is a good comment. I think sort of what I was going for subconsciously, but I'm glad you articulated it. I can certainly work this in as a theme.

[Hobbit]

13 hours ago, Mandamon said:

I can certainly work this in as a theme.

Only if you want to. It's your story! But I'm glad if my comments are helpful.