Tarion Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 I've been thinking of Shardplate on my audiobook trek through Words of Radiance. Something struck me about the battle near to the end of the book - Their Shardplate was still working. At a time when all of their spheres were depleted and most of their cut gems were close to it, their Shardplate was still at peak efficiency. They don't seem to be concerned about its function at all. In fact, the only time Shardplate seems to degrade at all is when it's damaged. Even the Knights Radiant aren't perfect vessels for Stormlight - Their bodies are too porous. We're actually told that the only other thing capable of holding Stormlight perfectly are the Voidbringers themselves. Personally, I think this is a feature, not a bug, and that furthermore, the Radiants would be able to pull Stormlight back out of their plates. The Radiants would need some form of Stormlight battery, because Stormlight in gems isn't reliable enough. Otherwise, the Voidbringers would simply attack during the Weeping. As it is, even a prepared army was drastically short of Stormlight while fuelling just a few fabrials. It would also explain the role of Plate for some of the less combat oriented Orders - Even if you're not expecting to be hit by a lightning bolt, being able to fuel your Surgebinding would be incredibly useful. I also think this is where we're going to see Identity come into play on Roshar. If a true Radiant was powering their own Plate, the Stormlight in it would be keyed to them, like a Metalmind. But the 'dead' sets of Plate are powered by gems. They're unkeyed. And I think that (with time, and maybe another oath) Kaladin is going to rip the Stormlight out of a set of Plate, either freezing it up (As we see happen with depleted Plate) or more spectacularly, reducing a section to pure Stormlight, and absorbing it all.
Yata he/him Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) Actually you put the answer to your own prediction...in your prediction. The Plate weren't discharged by the Weeping because Alethi used to keep large gems (that hold more stormlight). You may see it with the "lanterns" used to feed Kaladin in the last part. The Plates would not be discharge by the Oathgate, because the Stormlight in them were keyed to the Bearer. Kaladin or any other Surgebinder can't absorb Stormlight from a active Plate...because the Bearer is already using the Stormlight and that Stormlight is keyed to him. You may see it in the Arena's duel, where Kal could suck Stormlight from a Plate but only when that part of the Plate were not used by someone else. PS: Notice that "Voidbringers may hold perfectly Stormlight isn't "the truth" is something Szeth believes...There is a difference, also the Voidbringer could not hold perfectly Stormlight Edited February 6, 2017 by Yata
Tarion Posted February 6, 2017 Author Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) Quote The Plate weren't discharged by the Weeping because Alethi used to keep large gems (that hold more stormlight). You may see it with the "lanterns" used to feed Kaladin in the last part Do they? I was under the impression that Shardplate was powered by relatively normal sized gems. Considering the larger gems can be the size of a man's head, that seems... uncomfortable to wear. However, even the largest gems will run out during the Weeping (We're told less than half way through the Weeping that the largest gems will last only a week or so more), which would be problematic. Quote You may see it in the Arena's duel, where Kal could suck Stormlight from a Plate but only when that part of the Plate were not used by someone else. I'm pretty sure we only see the opposite happen - Kaladin can put Stormlight into a piece of Plate, to keep it working well after it should have exploded, but we never see him draw it out. Quote also the Voidbringer could not hold perfectly Stormlight Do we have a WoB on it? Because the only things in the book is Szeth's belief that they can. It could be wrong, but right now, Szeth knows more than most on Roshar with regards to Stormlight, so I'm inclined to trust him. EDIT: I knew this was in here somewhere: Sadeas fished something out of a pouch at his waist, holding it up. A large sapphire. It wasn’t infused. So they're large, but not incredibly so. I mean, he's able to fish it out of a pouch at his waist, so we're not in the ballpark of the bigger gemhearts (which makes sense - There's no way they could afford the attrition on that). Edited February 6, 2017 by Tarion
Yata he/him Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 About the Voidbringer as not perfect recipe and Stormlight's draining in a Plate we have Wobs...I have only hard time to find them. I will post here when I find it. Notice only about the Stormlight in the weeping that Alethi manage to have enough Stormlight infused gem to use the Fabrial in the battle...so they manage to minize the Stormlight's leaking (maybe keeping Gemstone near or I don't know)
Tarion Posted February 6, 2017 Author Posted February 6, 2017 1 minute ago, Yata said: About the Voidbringer as not perfect recipe and Stormlight's draining in a Plate we have Wobs...I have only hard time to find them. I will post here when I find it. Notice only about the Stormlight in the weeping that Alethi manage to have enough Stormlight infused gem to use the Fabrial in the battle...so they manage to minize the Stormlight's leaking (maybe keeping Gemstone near or I don't know) Thanks for looking for the WoBs. I've not seen either (And a quick Google search hasn't found anything). They do have enough Stormlight for the fabrials, but they say how much longer they'll last (Not through the rest of the Weeping) and they're not confident in how much Stormlight they still hold (Or at least, not sure how well their remaining Stormlight can hold up with a relatively experimental fabrial, anyway)
Spoolofwhool Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) I doubt placing stormlight in shardplate would allow for the permanent storage of stormlight since we have a WoB that effectively says that nothing can due to the nature of stormlight. However, if shardplate is directly created from the physical manifestation of stormlight then it could be possible, but I don't think this is the case. Edited February 6, 2017 by Spoolofwhool
Yata he/him Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Tarion said: Thanks for looking for the WoBs. I've not seen either (And a quick Google search hasn't found anything). ok it took me a while but: Quote Q: why do Szeth and Kaladin not suck all the stormlight out of the gems that power shardplate when they fight people wearing plate, thus rendering the plate useless? Is there something different about the gems that power plate that would make this impossible? A: So, in the magic of Stormlight (and across several of my books) there's are some underlying principles. One is that the power of the magic (which we call investiture) is difficult to manipulate when it is claimed by someone, or something, else. You can imagine that magic in the process of being used, like the energy powering plate, works like a kind of negative charge to your own magic. Trying to lash someone in Plate will be very difficult, as the stormlight in the plate is going to resist your attempts to push through it and get at the person. Likewise, that power in the plate is actively being used--draining it is difficult. If you can rip off a piece of the plate, disconnecting it from the system, then you can get at those gemstones and drain them much more easily. But tucked away inside, they're both shielded and being actively used by the armor. They would be virtually impossible to drain.
Yezrien Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 In addition to larger gemstones, maybe the stormlight within a shardplate-system is comparable to stormlight that Shallan stores in Pattern. We don't know much about that process, but maybe it's a more efficient storage system than gemstones; maybe it holds the stormlight a little longer.
Yata he/him Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 2 hours ago, Belzedar said: In addition to larger gemstones, maybe the stormlight within a shardplate-system is comparable to stormlight that Shallan stores in Pattern. We don't know much about that process, but maybe it's a more efficient storage system than gemstones; maybe it holds the stormlight a little longer. The only problem I see is: Shardplate is fueled by Stormlight...therefore also if the Plate is a perfect vessel. It would consume Stormlight for his own working. Another problem I never considerated (thanks to you for the inspiration) is that the Alethi cna't move Stormlight between gemstones...so no "large gem for long storage and then move it into little gem for use"
Tarion Posted February 6, 2017 Author Posted February 6, 2017 Have you got a date on that WoB? Because, interestingly, in 2015 we got a less negative response: "Not easy" is a far cry from almost impossible. And it appears that you only need to crack the armour, as opposed to removing a piece entirely. I'd assume the more recent WoB is more accurate.
Yata he/him Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Tarion said: "Not easy" is a far cry from almost impossible. And it appears that you only need to crack the armour, as opposed to removing a piece entirely. I'd assume the more recent WoB is more accurate. Nothing (almost nothing) is impossible...But the "power" needed to performe some task is beyond the Mortals' abilities. Notice that a KH didn't become a better Stormlight siphon while progress with the Oaths, He become a more efficient surgebinder....so He need less stormligt to performe the surges and gain its benefit. In theory you may Push/Pull a Shardblade with Allomancy...but you need to be connected to a godly amount of power (just to make an example)
The One Who Connects he/him Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Yata said: In theory you may Push/Pull a Shardblade with Allomancy...but you need to be connected to a godly amount of power (just to make an example) He later lessened that one to something that could potentially be done with a Duralumin Pull. However, Duralumin boost is still up there on the power scale, so your example holds. Also, I found the Voidbringer WoB. (Entries that contain the word stormlight, and Ctrl+F searching for the word "Hold") Quote Part of this is kind of inherent to the Shard and the power it’s coming from. I mean the power of Endowment is just going to stick, that’s part of the nature of its magic. Does that make sense? But it also kind of has to do with how the ecosystems are working. For instance the Stormlight is essential to the ecosystem of Roshar, it needs to be expended, it needs to get out and-- It’s like evaporation, does that make sense? Argent Recycling? Not the recycling but the cycle of-- Brandon Sanderson Yeah, yeah like the cycle of water. And so just part of the way the nature of it works, it /has/ to get out, it /has/ to leak out, it has to run out. I mean it leaks even from spheres, right? Argent And when you lash things it’s temporary-- Brandon Sanderson Yep. And even though Szeth says that he thought Voidbringers could hold it they can’t. Like it is just not the way that it works. Argent Can they just hold it better? Brandon Sanderson They can hold it better. It’s not permanent. Now there are things that can do it permanently but-- Slightly shortened for clarity. Edited February 6, 2017 by The One Who Connects
Tarion Posted February 6, 2017 Author Posted February 6, 2017 Fantastic, thanks for that. That struck something in me, and I was able to dig up this WoB that elaborates a bit more [Chasmfiends are] an introduction of gemhearts and things like this, and the ability of certain creatures to hold investiture permanently, as Szeth says, rather than it seeping away like it does to humans http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1182#66 So, it's definitely possible for there to be perfect vessels for Stormlight.
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