Firesoul ferrings

[HavoKinetic]

When we discuss which one type of ferring we'd like to be, my wife chooses steel or cadmium (she's a runner). I like the ones where storing and tapping both have benefits, like Wax with his iron. My preferred would be brass. Reading some posts here, it seems feelings are similar : pick a metal where tapping is useful enough or storing at certain times isn't too detrimental, or one where storing and tapping both have uses.

So that got me thinking about how being a Firesoul works. Human bodies naturally regulate temperature - sweat to cool down, shiver to warm up, etc. So is a Firesoul just a little better at that? Or do they only store their own feeling of warmth, but not actual degrees?

Brandon has said that storing has failsafes, so if we're storing actual thermal energy from our own body, we can't (or maybe won't) freeze ourselves to death. Presumably we could combust while tapping though.

OR can I actually store ambient thermal energy from around me? Even if I just cooled myself and then naturally took in some heat transfer, storing warmth is going to have some effect on your surroundings. But if we take this to the extreme, every Firesoul is basically Iceman, able to manipulate thermal energy in a range. Which would be awesome.

Can I store warmth just at one part of my body, by many degrees, or is it my whole body only? If it's one part, could I effectively be immune to burns by storing from wherever fire was touching me?

If I'm a brass compounder, can I break the laws of physics and create energy that didn't exist before? This is hardly the only metallic art that could do it - Coinshots are creating kinetic energy that wasn't there before. Or I guess maybe they're pulling it from some shard's Investiture? One of those physics-breaking matter/energy-creating combos has got to be how the Scadrians get FTL...

 

[Yata he/him]

Actually you can't access directly to the ambient's heat outside of your body. As everything else in feruchemy you may manage only your own body/mind/soul. Of course if you store a bit of heat in a very hot day, the surround heat would still warm you.

Another point, feruchemy has not failsafe. You may kill you storing too much, the safe treeshold is very attribute dependant, some of them may be stored quite to the 100%, other began to put your life in danger over the 30% (random number).

You usually gain a bit help to manage the attributes while you tap them but it's not a real immunity to their effects

Edited December 14, 2016 by Yata

[Demiandre he/him]

Nice questions. I suppose a savant might be able to focus heat differently in his body, through precise control... But I'm really not sure...

Here a WoB about immunity while tapping or storing, but I don't know if it works for everything in Feruchemy. I don't believe it works for Gold for example :

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=977#30

Concerning the creation of energy with compounding, the energy always exists. It's just that you generate/draw more Investiture from the Spiritual Realm and can use it to fuel the other metallic Art.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Demiandre

[Spoolofwhool]

50 minutes ago, HavoKinetic said:

So that got me thinking about how being a Firesoul works. Human bodies naturally regulate temperature - sweat to cool down, shiver to warm up, etc. So is a Firesoul just a little better at that? Or do they only store their own feeling of warmth, but not actual degrees?

Actual thermal energy from inside your body.

50 minutes ago, HavoKinetic said:

Can I store warmth just at one part of my body, by many degrees, or is it my whole body only? If it's one part, could I effectively be immune to burns by storing from wherever fire was touching me?

Yes. In fact, this is why brass feruchemist are commonly firefighters in Era 2. They just start storing and walking into the fire.

51 minutes ago, HavoKinetic said:

If I'm a brass compounder, can I break the laws of physics and create energy that didn't exist before? This is hardly the only metallic art that could do it - Coinshots are creating kinetic energy that wasn't there before. Or I guess maybe they're pulling it from some shard's Investiture? One of those physics-breaking matter/energy-creating combos has got to be how the Scadrians get FTL...

The power from compounding, like allomancy, because it is essentially the same thing, comes from Preservation. 

[Savanorn he/him]

On 12/15/2016 at 1:47 AM, Spoolofwhool said:

Actual thermal energy from inside your body.

Yes. In fact, this is why brass feruchemist are commonly firefighters in Era 2. They just start storing and walking into the fire.

The power from compounding, like allomancy, because it is essentially the same thing, comes from Preservation. 

Hey hey Spool.

What's the source for this? 

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Savanorn

[Spoolofwhool]

36 minutes ago, Savanorn said:

Hey hey Spool.

What's the source for this? 

 

If I recall correctly, it was an Era 2 book, I think Alloy of Law. Can't remember though.

[Yata he/him]

47 minutes ago, FiveLate said:

Well if you were storing heat as discussed....you would stop when you went unconscious .... I put that in the same category as sleep.

You may be right, but if you store too much together you may simply die in seconds and don't have the time to recover...Imagine someone pushed in a really cold water. The thermal shock may kill you and also if then you start to regain your heat (if you don't die) you may be killed by the second thermal shock...I don't think it's a safe process storing too heat

[Savanorn he/him]

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

If I recall correctly, it was an Era 2 book, I think Alloy of Law. Can't remember though.

Hrmm. The main reason I ask is because I'd be curious about the practicality of that. 

Like, it'd seem to me, that even if you're storing something absurd like..say...half your body heat it really wouldn't make that much difference to a fire. Like hundreds of degrees past your tolerance is still hundreds of degrees. 

Likewise given the convection of flames and variability of fuels (especially uncontrolled blazes in a residential or industrial setting) you'd have to be able to adapt very quickly to a change in temperature.

Like imagine you walk into a burning building. How do you know, even roughly, how much heat to start storing? 

I guess one of the biggest issues is that we haven't seen a firesoul PoV. So they mave have more of a ... instictive grasp of their body heat. 

I guess, could a firesoul reach into a flame and pull out an ember? I had previously assumed not. 

Perhaps. I was wrong. 

[Spoolofwhool]

6 hours ago, Savanorn said:

Hrmm. The main reason I ask is because I'd be curious about the practicality of that. 

Like, it'd seem to me, that even if you're storing something absurd like..say...half your body heat it really wouldn't make that much difference to a fire. Like hundreds of degrees past your tolerance is still hundreds of degrees. 

Likewise given the convection of flames and variability of fuels (especially uncontrolled blazes in a residential or industrial setting) you'd have to be able to adapt very quickly to a change in temperature.

Like imagine you walk into a burning building. How do you know, even roughly, how much heat to start storing? 

I guess one of the biggest issues is that we haven't seen a firesoul PoV. So they mave have more of a ... instictive grasp of their body heat. 

I guess, could a firesoul reach into a flame and pull out an ember? I had previously assumed not. 

Perhaps. I was wrong. 

Ah, agh. Found where I had read it. It was in MAG so I guess it's not as good as I thought. There is a WoB saying that storing heat would help with high temperatures. I can see it working in a general sense, though the question is how quickly and finely can they change temperatures. I think though, is that once your body starts to heat up from the fire, you can store that heat as well. 

[+robardin he/him]

But isn't this limited to how much brass you have got? Eventually the brassmind will fill up. Sazed mentioned that his little rings couldn't hold very much.

On the other hand it seems brassmind storage is very efficient, meaning even a small brassmind (like the medallions we see in BoM) can store enough body heat to last a person for quite some time.

Or maybe "firefighter" Firesoul Ferrings just walk around with their big brass... plates.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

23 minutes ago, robardin said:

But isn't this limited to how much brass you have got? Eventually the brassmind will fill up. Sazed mentioned that his little rings couldn't hold very much.

On the other hand it seems brassmind storage is very efficient, meaning even a small brassmind (like the medallions we see in BoM) can store enough body heat to last a person for quite some time.

Or maybe "firefighter" Firesoul Ferrings just walk around with their big brass... plates.

Were it not for the fact that touching hot metal is... bad, I would say that they could inlay brass plates in the uniform the way body armor has ceramic plates in it.

[Spoolofwhool]

5 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

Were it not for the fact that touching hot metal is... bad, I would say that they could inlay brass plates in the uniform the way body armor has ceramic plates in it.

The hot metal wouldn't be a problem, they would just be storing off the heat as quickly as the metal would be conducting it in, just like they do for the heat in the air.

[Savanorn he/him]

On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 1:35 AM, Spoolofwhool said:

Ah, agh. Found where I had read it. It was in MAG so I guess it's not as good as I thought. There is a WoB saying that storing heat would help with high temperatures. I can see it working in a general sense, though the question is how quickly and finely can they change temperatures. I think though, is that once your body starts to heat up from the fire, you can store that heat as well. 

That is indeed not as good as I'd hoped. 

The issue here is I can imagine that it would indeed help, for say...general radiant heat, but even a small housefire is likely to release orders of magnitude more heat than a human body. Plus ...human flesh needs only to be exposed to that sort of heat for a moment to be damaged.

So yeah. Like could a firesoul put their hand in a candle flame and not get burned? Is their skill that fine? I'd think not. 

The big issue is I feel like the Firesoul basically can control their internal body tenperature. They can't do anything about embers or hot metal or anything that changes temperature quickly enough (going from external to internal) and I don't think they could...say...store heat in their hands and not in the rest of their body. In the same vein as a Skimmer seems to only be able store the weight of their whole body, or not as all (in the sense that they don't make a single limb much lighter or heavier).

So if they were..say...in a hot bath or a cold winter sea they'd be fine as neither of those act quickly enough to damage tissue. But if they were thrown into an open fire or dropped in liquid nitrogen vats it'd be another story. 

Don't get me wrong. It'd be useful. But in a limited sense as I see it.

Also this.

On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 5:21 AM, robardin said:

But isn't this limited to how much brass you have got? Eventually the brassmind will fill up. Sazed mentioned that his little rings couldn't hold very much.

On the other hand it seems brassmind storage is very efficient, meaning even a small brassmind (like the medallions we see in BoM) can store enough body heat to last a person for quite some time.

Or maybe "firefighter" Firesoul Ferrings just walk around with their big brass... plates.

I actually didn't think about this, but so much extra heat being stored might fill them up. 

Then again, do we know the investiture/mass ratio of metals? 

Like Wax was able to store years worth of weight in ...what...iron arm bands?

Then again. Building fires might well constitute about the same amount of energy. 

On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 11:44 AM, Spoolofwhool said:

The hot metal wouldn't be a problem, they would just be storing off the heat as quickly as the metal would be conducting it in, just like they do for the heat in the air.

This actually raises a rather novel point. 

I don't think they could store heat at different rates. So they can either store it as way to ward off the hot air and be burned by metalminds, or store it at the rate the metalminds conduct and potentially store too much. 

Then again. Hypothermia takes far longer to kill you so this would likely be the far more practical route. 

Thanks for listening to me ramble, it is actually quite interesting to roll it aroubd in my head.

[Yata he/him]

Maybe in the case of really extreme temperature tapping from an Brassmind is a better option than Storing. The Heat resistence would be more useful I think.

An hypotetical FireFighter may try to alternate store and tap in the circustances....Storing in a hot but not lethal situation and Tap in Lethal hot situation, this would give him also a way to manage the Heat charge in the Metalminds...Of course I don't know how much Heat you may safety tap from a Heatmind

[Spoolofwhool]

4 hours ago, Yata said:

Maybe in the case of really extreme temperature tapping from an Brassmind is a better option than Storing. The Heat resistence would be more useful I think.

An hypotetical FireFighter may try to alternate store and tap in the circustances....Storing in a hot but not lethal situation and Tap in Lethal hot situation, this would give him also a way to manage the Heat charge in the Metalminds...Of course I don't know how much Heat you may safety tap from a Heatmind

Unfortunately tapping warmth wouldn't be that effective. The heat resistance granted would only protect for the exact amount of heat tapped, just like how tapping iron only strengthens the body so that it can support the extra mass tapped, and no more.

[Yata he/him]

3 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Unfortunately tapping warmth wouldn't be that effective. The heat resistance granted would only protect for the exact amount of heat tapped, just like how tapping iron only strengthens the body so that it can support the extra mass tapped, and no more.

Yes I considerated it, but I try to figure it in this way (the main idea is a speculation):

Feruchemy gives you the ability to sustain his own use while you tap an attribute. This means if you tap twice your Heat your temperature will rise to almost 75° and the feruchemy give you the ability to sustain 75° as if it is your normal temperature.

Now begin the speculation. In this state, hot water at 70° will burn you ? Or your body would be protected ? If the answer is yes...this mean that your body would tollerate any temperature comparable to your own.

Of course to stop or at least resist better to an actual fire, you have to tap tenfold or more your standard Heat...This mean an extreme consume of Feruchemical Charge.

 

I repeat, it's just an idea but it is at least plausible

Edited December 18, 2016 by Yata

[Spoolofwhool]

2 hours ago, Yata said:

Feruchemy give you the ability to sustain his use while you tap an attribute. This means if you tap twice your Heat your temperature will rise to almost 75° and the feruchemy give you the ability to sustain 75° as if it is your normal temperature.

Now begin the speculation. In this state, hot water at 70° will burn you ? Or your body would be protected ? If the answer is yes...this mean that your body would tollerate any temperature comparable to your own.

Yes, I don't think you would be affected by a 70 degree item, because of how thermal kinetics work. Since the object has a lower temperature, then heat would be leeched out of you.