Any more Mistborn?

[Spoolofwhool]

8 minutes ago, Talanelat'Elin Stonesinew said:

Remember Zane had a spike, probably more than one

Zane had a single spike and it enhanced his allomantic steel ability, allowing him to rotate while hovering and pushing only on a single boxing. He was mistborn independent of that. 

[Sallin Zeras]

46 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Zane had a single spike and it enhanced his allomantic steel ability, allowing him to rotate while hovering and pushing only on a single boxing. He was mistborn independent of that. 

Has it been confirmed that he only had one spike? I don't remember TWoA very well.

[Inquisitor #5]

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=727#23

 

¤_¤

[Spoolofwhool]

2 minutes ago, Talanelat'Elin Stonesinew said:

Has it been confirmed that he only had one spike? I don't remember TWoA very well.

This WoB seems to be explicitly saying he only had one spike/one hemalurgic enhancement.

Quote

KAIMIPONO (15 OCTOBER 2008)

What was Zane's hemalurgical power? (Or was he just spiked for control?)

BRANDON SANDERSON (16 OCTOBER 2008)

Extra power with Pushing on metals. It lent him extremely great precision.

[Source]

[Sallin Zeras]

13 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

This WoB seems to be explicitly saying he only had one spike/one hemalurgic enhancement.

Ok, thanks. It's been a while since I read the Original Mistborn Triology, like, a long time.

[+robardin]

On 12/12/2016 at 4:25 PM, Jedal said:

I forgot about Rashek. 

That is a sentence I don't think I ever expected to read in this particular area of the Internet.

Where is this about the "conflict" in the sDNA for being both Mistborn and a Feruchemist coming from? I don't recall reading that. Because obviously the traits for Allomancy and Feruchemy don't conflict such that that Twinborn are naturally occurring, nor is it a case where "as long as the metals don't overlap", as a Twinborn Compounder (gold) like Miles Hundredlives was naturally occurring as well.

Also, if this is something Spiritweb related, would it not be something Rashek would have understood while holding the power of Preservation? He saw enough to realize creating beads of lerasium would create full Mistborns. If he knew it would be impossible for Feruchemists to breed with Mistborn to produce a "natural" Fullborn, he wouldn't have had to resort to transforming his friends (along with all living Feruchemists) into mistwraiths/kandra, nor to institute the repressive and abusive "breeding programs" on his own Terris people, "out of fear that someday [a Fullborn] could be born to challenge him".

Unless this is all an as-yet-unknown-to-me WoB somewhere that mentions Sazed fiddling with things upon Ascension, along with restoring chromium or nicrosil to the Allomantic Misting pool in lieu of atium, changing the mechanism of Snapping, and possibly, enabling the theretofore-unseen phenomenon of Ferrings?

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by robardin

[Eki]

45 minutes ago, robardin said:

Also, if this is something Spiritweb related, would it not be something Rashek would have understood while holding the power of Preservation? He saw enough to realize creating beads of lerasium would create full Mistborns. If he knew it would be impossible for Feruchemists to breed with Mistborn to produce a "natural" Fullborn, he wouldn't have had to resort to transforming his friends (along with all living Feruchemists) into mistwraiths/kandra, nor to institute the repressive and abusive "breeding programs" on his own Terris people, "out of fear that someday [a Fullborn] could be born to challenge him".

A Mistborn Bloodmaker would have been enough to be dangerous for TLR, as would (probably) a Mistborn Steelrunner. Or an Augur Feruchemist. Not just because they would be able to challenge his power (somewhat), but also just because they would be able to figure out that Compounding is an actual thing. TLR didn't want that kind of knowledge out there, especially not if his Inquisitors got hold of it.

49 minutes ago, robardin said:

Unless this is all an as-yet-unknown-to-me WoB somewhere that mentions Sazed fiddling with things upon Ascension, along with restoring chromium or nicrosil to the Allomantic Misting pool in lieu of atium, changing the mechanism of Snapping, and possibly, enabling the theretofore-unseen phenomenon of Ferrings?

Chromium and Nicrosil were never gone from the Misting pool, there was just no way to know if those Mistings had any powers. Preservation did exchange one of them for atium in his force snapping though, since he actually needed atium Mistings for the plan to work. Ferrings exist because of the interference between Allomancy and Feruchemy (the WoB about that is earlier in the thread). They existed before Rashek's Ascension too, but were very rare.

[+robardin]

39 minutes ago, Eki said:

A Mistborn Bloodmaker would have been enough to be dangerous for TLR, as would (probably) a Mistborn Steelrunner. Or an Augur Feruchemist. Not just because they would be able to challenge his power (somewhat), but also just because they would be able to figure out that Compounding is an actual thing. TLR didn't want that kind of knowledge out there, especially not if his Inquisitors got hold of it.

That's kind of the point I was trying to make, though. I was using it as an (counter)example as to the repeated statements that confused me earlier. Blast it, I can't figure out how to multi-quote, but Spoolofwhool wrote this on the first page of this thread (bolding mine):

Quote

Naturally, being a fullborn, possessing all the powers of allomancy and feruchemy is impossible. The gene for allomancy interferes with the gene for feruchemy. Using the Well of Ascension however, Rashek (TLR) turned himself into a fullborn, and other methods, such as hemalurgy should theoretically make it possible to create someone analogous to a fullborn. Inquisitors were probably the closest we had.

And other posters seemed to take it as something of a given. But If TLR was concerned about a stacked/compounded person being naturally born with both Allomancy and Feruchemy during the Final Empire era, and we also see naturally occurring Twinborns - including same-metal Compounding Twinborns - in the post-Catacendre era, how is that true? Where is this idea coming from?

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by robardin
fortune favors the bold

[Vissy]

To the OP, there probably are more Mistborn. The assumption goes that

Spook and Kelsier are practically immortal at this point in the series, at least Kelsier is.

(Secret History spoilers)

Edited December 16, 2016 by Rob Lucci

[Eki]

19 minutes ago, robardin said:

And other posters seemed to take it as something of a given. But If TLR was concerned about a stacked/compounded person being naturally born with both Allomancy and Feruchemy during the Final Empire era, and we also see naturally occurring Twinborns - including same-metal Compounding Twinborns - in the post-Catacendre era, how is that true? Where is this idea coming from?

The WoB about Allomancy and Feruchemy interfering is earlier in this thread. I think it was page 2 or something.

The Terris people kept themselves mostly separate before the world of ash, which is why Feruchemy was kept fairly "pure", and never spread to other peoples.

After Rashek's Ascension, the Allomancy potential of the population increased significantly, as the lerasium beads were distributed to Rashek's early allies. We can't know for sure what Rashek saw during his Ascension, but he did view Feruchemy as the threat to be contained. That is why he made all Feruchemists into mistwraiths, and then tried to exterminate his own people. Later, he instead began the breeding program. This kept Allomancy and Feruchemy separate still, even if Allomancy was much stronger in the general population than it used to be.

After Sazed Ascended, the Terris people were suddenly free to have children with whoever they wished, and also lived in the relatively small area of the Basin, together with people of higher Allomantic potential. And so, pretty much for the first time ever, people with high Allomantic potential had children with people with high Feruchemical potential. This interbreeding (interference between Allomancy and Feruchemy), together with the massive weakening of Feruchemy caused by the extermination of all Keepers just before the Final Ascension, led to more and more Ferrings appearing, along with the Twinborn.

 

[+robardin]

15 minutes ago, Eki said:

The WoB about Allomancy and Feruchemy interfering is earlier in this thread. I think it was page 2 or something.

Yeah, I found it as a link:

www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=632#1

Quote

Why do the Twinborn in Alloy of Law have only one feruchemical power, when all previous feruchemists, in spite of breeding programs, could use all the metals? (from travyl) Or were Ferrings always part of the system and we just didn't meet them in Mistborn? (my addition)

BRANDON SANDERSON:

The Ferrings are a new development since Mistborn, as the Feruchemists have been interbreeding with the Allomancers. Basically, the Allomancy genes interfere with the Feruchemistry genes, breaking it down and creating the limitations we see in Alloy of Law. (His response to this was really fun—he found it a very perceptive question, and enjoyed talking about it. I wish I'd had my recorder handy so I could give you the full transcript instead of the boiled-down version.)

So what people mean is that the Allomancy genes interfere with the (full) Feruchemy genes, not in a way that makes combining Feruchemy with Allomancy impossible (obviously not), but that genetic ability for Allomancy somehow "shards" the Feruchemy ability into Ferring-style expressions of Feruchemy. And that the reason we hadn't seen them before on Scadrial, either in the Final Empire or the "Classic" era before it, had to do with the isolation of the Terris Feruchemist population from the non-Terris people (first by mountains, then by pogrom and breeding programs).

 

[Eki]

1 hour ago, robardin said:

So what people mean is that the Allomancy genes interfere with the (full) Feruchemy genes, not in a way that makes combining Feruchemy with Allomancy impossible (obviously not), but that genetic ability for Allomancy somehow "shards" the Feruchemy ability into Ferring-style expressions of Feruchemy. And that the reason we hadn't seen them before on Scadrial, either in the Final Empire or the "Classic" era before it, had to do with the isolation of the Terris Feruchemist population from the non-Terris people (first by mountains, then by pogrom and breeding programs).

Exactly. The weaker Allomantic potential of the general population of Classic Scadrial probably also contributed, in the rare cases where Terris did mix with others back then. I don't think we know if Allomancy actually weakens the Feruchemy gene or just weakens the actual manifestation of it (by turning people into Ferrings), though. Could be either, but I'm guessing the latter. We also don't know if it's a result of general weakening (like weaker Allomancers become Mistings instead of Mistborn) or if there is a specific kind of interference that turns full Feruchemists into Ferrings instead. Again, I'm guessing the latter (or a combination), since there probably would have been more Ferrings in the past if it was just a matter of lower potential, and not something else as well.

But I'm pretty sure there is also a WoB that being born both a full Feruchemist and a Mistborn is literally impossible, and must be achieved through other means (such as using the Well, in Rashek's case). Can't find that WoB though. But that's one of the things people mean when they say there is a conflict in the sDNA - that the two traits that would lead to a Mistborn or a Feruchemist cannot be passed down together to a single person. (Presumably, if this "would have" happened, you'd either get a Mistborn Ferring, a Misting Feruchemist, or a Twinborn instead, but who knows.) If anyone can actually find if this WoB exists, I'd be grateful!