[AU Spoilers?] Constellation Map Symbolism

[Argent he/him]

I've been looking at the gorgeous Cosmere constellation map (now available online), and I've been thinking about the constellations - and more specifically, why certain images were chosen for some of them. Roshar's Shardbearer/Herald/Radiant/whatever the suited figure is, is pretty clear I think. Nalthis' lady is also straightforward - it's someone exhaling, giving Breath. Now, both of those could be depictions of the respective star systems' Shards (i.e. the Shardbearer might be Honor, and the lady could be Endowment), but it's hard to tell. 

Threnody's lady could be Silence, but I don't think that's the case because of two reasons - the constellation image is clearly not old enough to be Silence, and Silence is likely not important enough on the Cosmere scale of things to warrant her likeness be immortalized as a constellation. Then again, Threnody seems to depict Dusk... The only thing that makes sense to me is that we are seeing Ambition there - but I don't like the idea of those constellations showing Shards. 

And then it gets wonky. Taldain has a tree of all things. The only way this makes sense in my head as that it emphasizes the importance of water on that planet. 

And then Sel gets a lamp?! With the others I could kind of shoehorn them all in a model where the constellations depict the theme of their labeled Shardworld (e.g. Breath is kind of a big deal on Nalthis, Heralds and Radiants have been important to Greater Roshar, the Threnodite lady could symbolize mourning, the sailor from First of the Sun could resemble the culture there, and so on), but the map still doesn't fit! I could probably really stretch the situation and say that this looks like a genie lamp, where a genie is trapped, and we now know that Devotion's and Dominion's investiture is trapped in the Cognitive Realm of Sel, but that's a massive stretch... 

The Scar I can't talk about. I do like the idea that Yolen is somewhere there, but there are too many unknowns to even try to theorize about it.

What do you think?

[theuntaintedchild he/him]

Taldain's tree is specifically a tree without leaves. Could be dead. Seems to fit pretty well in a desert setting. 

I thought Threnody's might be a shade.

First of the Sun I saw as a generic island fisherman with his boat and net. Which makes sense for me due to the nature of the Pantheon. 

Sel I still have no idea what the magic lamp is about. 

Also...Yolen is definitely where the scar resides now. I'm not sure if it's still there or not but I think it makes sense considering the constellation. 

Edited December 5, 2016 by theuntaintedchild

[Tsidqiyah he/him]

Also of note is the fact that Taldain's tree is on a stone. Further evidence for a desert reference but it may also be sun burned?

The Woman for Threnody is in mourning.  A Threnody is a lament  so that makes some sense.

   Dictionary . com: 

   threnody [thren-uh-dee] - NOun 

   1. A poem, speech, or song of lamentation, especially for the dead; dirge; funeral song.

 

As for Sel's lamp everyone has referenced it as a "magic" or "genie's" lamp. But, i see a simple oil lamp lit for light. This kind of lamp which is often a symbol of religious worship and personal devotion think of the New Testament Parable of the ten virgins.... wait devotion...   needless to say but I see the lamp as a reference to Devotion.  

Edited December 5, 2016 by Tsidqiyah

[Pagerunner he/him]

I've been mulling this over for a while, too. I don't think the constellations represent Shardbearers, because Scadrial is part of another constellation. That being said, there are definitely some undeniable parallels between the constellations and the worlds that are a part of them. So, the big question in my mind is timing. When did these Constellations come about? It's a bit of a chicken-and-the-egg situation. Here are some possibilities.

• The Constellations are based on the Worlds. Silverlight generated them as they studied various worlds, specifically to match an aspect of that world. If it was soon after the Shattering, then it could have been before Ruin and Preservation created life in the Scadrian system, so that's why it doesn't have its own constellation. (Side note, could Silverlight predate the Shattering?)
• The Constellations are based on the Vessels. I don't find this terribly likely, since there's stuff like a tree and a lamp, as Argent said above. However, there could be symbolism there, which we just aren't able to grasp yet without reading Dragonsteel.
• The Worlds are based on the Constellations. I liked the idea that the constellations were viewed from Yolen, and put some thought into this avenue before it was debunked. But, if Silverlight is near Yolen (a not unreasonable possibility; as the source of the Shards, it should be near the center of the cosmere, and Silverlight as a worldhopping community wouldn't want to be off in a corner somewhere), then Silverlight could share similar constellations to Yolen. Elements of pre-Shattering mythology could have driven Shards to drive their magic in that direction. (A recent discussion from the Hoboken signing makes me think that the Vessel could have more of an influence on the magic system than I had previously assumed.) So, if you're on the breath planet, you get Breath. If you're on the fighting planet, you get armor and swords. I think this one would be stretching coincidence a bit.
• Lastly, this one I just thought of right now, the Constellations are Focuses. As I understand it, a magic system arises between a world and a Shard, and each will inform the specific magic system. A Shard needs to Invest in a world to create a magic system. What if these constellations are representative of the aspect of the world that defines the magic systems? The Initiations, perhaps? Roshar shows a knight; by definition, a knight follows a code. Nalthis shows breath; you need to collect Breath. First of the Sun shows a net; you need to capture a bird. Taldain shows a tree; you need to filter Investiture through other lifeforms. Threnody and Sel, we don't know the Initiation for either of them. Scadrial, I'd probably go back to the first point, and say there's nothing on there because the chart predates its inhabitation.
• And the cop-out is that the Constellations tell a Story. Khriss's essays, especially the Rosharan Essay, read a little stilted to me, since Brandon had intentionally written them so as not to spoil anything he hasn't written yet. And I don't fault him for it; otherwise, we wouldn't have the essays at all. So, still worth it. But it's possible the star chart is designed to mean more to us, the readers, than it does to those in-universe, and it could contain several levels of association. So it's possible this is giving us hints to the overarching story of the cosmere, the stuff Hoid's been up to, the stuff we haven't seen yet but Brandon promises AU begins to open the door to. It's possible these are relevant to Dragonsteel's plot, hints to the reader while just being constellations to those in-universe. This would ascribe the least meaning, but it is an in-universe art. It might not be any more complex than Earth's astrology, or the stories told by our constellations. Closer, brighter stars take prominence in constellations (center of a tree, light of a lamp, Orion's belt).But maybe going too in-depth would be losing the forest for the trees.

So, yeah, those are some of my thoughts. This seems like it will be a big mystery, like the Shadesmar map or the 'Voidbinding' chart. (Yes, I'm aware that there's a good chance it's not Voidbinding, but that's how I've most often heard it referred to.)

EDIT: Great point, @Tsidqiyah! I can tie that into Constellations as Focus, with Nazh saying in Secret History that it requires rites to become a Shade. Maybe emotion is a focus on Threnody; you need to feel a certain way to access or interact with magic? (Or did, when it there was Investiture there.) That could be the reason behind why all the worlds in the system are named for things connected with mourning. But, it does fit more simply into the first point, that it's called Threnody so Silverlight decided to make it a mourning woman.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Pagerunner

[dashardie]

I like this idea! The only thing I can think of for Sel is......you know what? I really got nothin'... Wracking my brain for something that fits, and the only thin that comes to mind is that it's a lamp because the Investiture is in the Cognitive realm, so maybe it's like the Light of Thought? Enlightenment and all that jazz. I highly doubt this is it, though, just a crackbrained thought that came to mind... @Pagerunner has summed it up nicely, though, so I'll just....I'll just be quiet now...

 

Move along, folks, move along... nothing to see here folks...

[HoidvsVoid]

There is already a topic about this on Cosmere maps...but this is a slightly more focused thread. Maybe about sel, it is initiated through a deep wanting. For example, anyone can be a forger and a monk and a jindo dancer if they are from the region and try to attain the powers (i think, i don't recall there being rejections). So for elantris, anyone who was so fascinated by them and wanted to become them, became them. Let us look at the two examples we know of for sure...raoden and galladon. Both had childhood memories of loving elantris, and both became elantrians. So the lamp is like a genie granting the wishes of those who really want to become invested. In this case, elantrians. Obviously there could be a little more to it, but that is the basic idea. (Since there was a large gap of years in between events). You need to have some sort of spiritual connection towards the elantrians. 

This is a stretch, i agree. All of them are. But i like it. Especially since it fits in with the aspect of devotion. 

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

For Sel....perhaps the smoke represents the Dor, bottled up in the Cognitive Realm and leaking through in various ways to impart magic to the world? And Taldain, perhaps Bavadin's symbol is a tree, a singular entity that branches out with various personas to reach across the cosmere? 

[emailanimal he/him]

We can approach this from two perspectives. In-world, the constellations are visualization conventions that denizens of Silverlight applied to the star map as they see it. Not too different from how Earth got Big Dipper and Orion.  This times the artwork. The assumption is that Silverlight did not exist before the Shattering. Hence, the map is relatively new and depicts the perceptions of Silverlight denizens in the post-shattering era.  It is therefore not unreasonable for them to try to connect the imagery with what they know about the Shardworlds in specific constellations.

 

Out-of-story, Brandon commissioned the artwork. We have two possibilities: (a) the artist had complete creative control over the images, and (b) Brandon gave instructions. We know that he had a prototype map drawn somewhere, so, presumably the start arrangement is his. So (b) is more likely. Next question: does he want to convey anything with the imagery, or we are in the "sometimes a dream is just a dream" situation. As much as I hate to admit it (because I, at first simply gazed at the constellations without trying to make connections), the knight for Roshar, and Breath for Nalthis are rather dead giveaways. Boat for First of The Sun and a mourning lady for Threnody are also pretty telling. So, much as I hate the implications, I have to think that all constellations are intended to mean something. 

But going back to the original thought - they are supposed to mean something to Silverlight folk.

Lamp as a symbol of Devotion is an interesting thought though. I like it.

[Argent he/him]

And my thoughts run very much along similar lines, @emailanimal. Far too many of the constellations are obviously related to their most notable Shardworld for Sel's lamp to be a random image. There has to be a connection.

[emailanimal he/him]

2 hours ago, Argent said:

And my thoughts run very much along similar lines, @emailanimal. Far too many of the constellations are obviously related to their most notable Shardworld for Sel's lamp to be a random image. There has to be a connection.

Well, aren't you going to a signing or something tonight? (-:

[Argent he/him]

I've been considering trying to include some questions about the constellation map...

[Confused]

Some quick thoughts. Apologies if I’m simply re-raising ideas others first raised on other threads – I haven’t read through those threads, so this is all new to me.

1. The map is two-dimensional, though space has, well, space – three dimensions. Because of the “parallax view,” it’s difficult to know where these constellations actually are in relation to one another.

2. Enlarging the map shows numerous cracks running through it. The map appears to be an old mural or oil painting (in human terms), perhaps painted on or hanging from a Silverlight wall. Yet because First of the Sun is included, this map must be fairly recent in Cosmere terms.

3. The hair of the two women each blows toward “The Scar.” That suggests that the Scar is a hole in the space-time continuum. I doubt I’m the first to suggest the serpent represents Odium, especially since the Rosharan warrior challenges it. IMO Odium’s magic severs Connections – that’s why he is associated with the “Void” – what’s left after all Connections sever. The idea that the Scar is an incipient Void Odium created that draws matter, energy and Investiture towards it makes sense to me.

4. Taldain’s tree is barren. To me it reflects Autonomy’s Mandate (Intent) – a remote “survivor” struggling to get by in an unforgiving Cosmere. The more interesting question: what is the object encircled by the tree’s roots? That object looks like a log or tree trunk. The imagery suggests Taldain draws life from other objects like a parasite. Taldain is also the brightest star on the map – perhaps because it has the most Investiture?

5. The inclusion of Scadrial in the Nalthis constellation gives credence to the view that the brothers Trell and Nalthis are/were also involved with Scadrial.

Thanks, Argent, for beginning this thread and drawing my attention to the map!

[HoidvsVoid]

Like i said before, it could be the showing devotion thing.

Or, it might be symbolic of the shards being trapped (without minds) and their powers beings used in tiny amounts by people harnessing the power of the dor. (Dor...door. coincidence? I think not. Opening the dor/door is like opening the lamp).

[Argent he/him]

Those are some serious leaps to conclusions I am reading here...

[Runyan Firetree]

The wiki article for oil lamps makes a pretty good case for lamp as a symbol for devotion.
 

Quote

 

> Lamps appear in the Torah and other Jewish sources as a symbol of “lighting” the way for the righteous, the wise, and for love and other positive values. While fire was often described as being destructive, light was given a positive spiritual meaning.

>"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." (Psalm 119:105)

 

Quote

Elantris was beautiful, once. It was called the city of the gods: a place of power. radiance, and magic. Visitors say that the very stones glowed with an inner light, and that the city contained wondrous arcane marvels. At night, Elantris shone like a great silvery fire, visible even from a great distance.  - Elantris opening paragraph

 

[HoidvsVoid]

Thanks runyan_ft, that was a nice source. However the constellation does look more like a genie lamp than a light lamp. Not that there is necessarily a difference. (As a jew, you couldn't have picked a better source, not even a WoB).

[Runyan Firetree]

A genie lamp is a light lamp though, it's a lamp with a magic being living inside / bound to it.  While certainly an ornate version, the same style elements can be found in several different lamps from antiquity.

Edited December 7, 2016 by runyan_ft
link

[Argent he/him]

So, the lamp. I asked Brandon about it last night at the Chicago Arcanum Unbounded signing, and his (paraphrased) response went something like this: @Isaac Stewart made those, so ask him. Originally Brandon was going to have just stars (no constellations), but Isaac drew constellations, Brandon liked them (and had Isaac explain them to him :D), and so now they are a thing. Brandon encouraged me to reach out to Isaac and ask him to write an essay for the website on the topic - something I would love to see! - but I think I'll ask for specifics first, see if we can clear up Sel's lamp prior to that (hypothetical) essay.

Also, fun bit of trivia - the in-world version of this map is hanging on a wall somewhere in Silverlight, and is from roughly the same time period as Khriss' AU essays.

[Argent he/him]

Back to the lamp. I am exchanging emails with Isaac with more details (on this and other things), but here's what he has to say about Sel's lamp:

Quote

Sel's constellation is symbolic (as is the constellation Threnody is found in). As for the lamp, notice that Sel is not exactly part of the lamp. It's part of the flame. How does Aon Dor work? An Elantrian creates an opening for it to pour through and effect the world. Think of the flame as a symbol for the Dor. Does that make sense?

So there.

[HoidvsVoid]

That is what i theorized in my initial statement in cosmere maps!!! One point for me.

[Pagerunner he/him]

14 minutes ago, Argent said:

Back to the lamp. I am exchanging emails with Isaac with more details (on this and other things), but here's what he has to say about Sel's lamp:

So there.

Any word on the tree? Or the dragon? Or Scadrial's placement?

[Argent he/him]

24 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Any word on the tree? Or the dragon? Or Scadrial's placement?

Asked about all three. He hasn't had a chance to reply just yet.

[Confused]

All interesting stuff! Pagerunner on the other “Cosmere map” thread points out the map itself is cracked, but the stars and lines on it are not. That suggests the latter were superimposed on prior artwork. IOW the “symbolism” predates the actual map. Silverlight “philosophers” “imagined” the star map based on the Cosmere’s story line.

The central element of the map is the apparent combat between the Rosharan warrior and the serpent/dragon at the Scar. It is the only element that involves two symbols. No other pair of symbols seem to relate to one another so directly.

And the serpent has SIXTEEN RED-RIMMED STARS on it. This may have to do with the Shattering or it may be an example of the Cosmere-importance of the number 16 (Leras), or it may be nothing at all (unlikely). There are four other red-rimmed stars on the map. Three of those are between the sword and the serpent’s mouth. The fourth is in the Threnody constellation, the only red-rimmed star not close to the serpent.

I earlier suggested the serpent may symbolize Odium. The “void” he seeks creates a vacuum that pulls matter to it. Perhaps the red-rimmed stars symbolize “red shift” – stars moving away from the observer make the light’s wavelength longer and redder. But what to make of the Threnody constellation's red-rimmed star?

Again, all interesting stuff…

[HoidvsVoid]

First, what is the most likely difference between the colored planets? (Is there a specific reason other than color?) 

Second, we don't see all of the Serpent.

Third, it is hard for a to tell the difference between a couple of the stars (the ones between the knight and the dragon for instance are lighter than the serpent).

Fourth, I do like the Void idea and the 16 idea.

What i am saying is: There is something there, as i already pointed out. Possibly that red means tainted with void, and he is trying to swallow more. Maybe Threnody used to be part of the serpent but then was removed and hidden behind the constellation (or something else)  Maybe Threnody was its next target before the knight stepped in (unlikely). 

I am just shooting in the dark right now, but I think time will tell (and possibly Argent).

[BeskarKomrk he/him]

16 hours ago, HoidvsVoid said:

First, what is the most likely difference between the colored planets? (Is there a specific reason other than color?)

All we see in this chart are the stars, which would naturally be different colors based on age and size. So I don't think that tells us much.