Creatures affected by emotional allomancy

[emailanimal he/him]

Since it is about a cross-over of powers, figure it belongs here....

Looking through the Provo Q&A on Theoryland, spotted these two beasties:

Quote

QUESTION

First I asked if Spren could be affected by emotional allomancy,

BRANDON SANDERSON

and I got a RAFO, which is very interesting.

and then this:

 

Quote

QUESTION

Also, I forgot to mention, the girl behind me asked if animals could be affected by emotional allomancy, and Brandon told her

BRANDON SANDERSON

that the closer they were to sapience, the easier it would be to affect them.

 

So, who else thinks that the latter answer also applies to the former question?

 

[emailanimal he/him]

Just found this one from Out of Excuses:

Quote

MARK LINDBERG

Would emotion spren react in any way if a Rioter or Soother were operating in the area?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, you would be able to see that sort of change if you were paying attention.

Not even certain why he RAFOed the one above... A hair-splitting difference between spren reacting and spren being affected?

[Vindicator]

55 minutes ago, emailanimal said:

Just found this one from Out of Excuses:

Not even certain why he RAFOed the one above... A hair-splitting difference between spren reacting and spren being affected?

Emotion spren likely react to a person's emotions being affected. I don't think spren necessarily can be Rioted or Soothed, since they're fragments of a Shard's power. If a normal spren has roughly the same amount of Investiture as a Radiant spren, I would say it's a definite no, given that Shardblades (which are living or dead Radiant spren) are hard to physically manipulate.

So the question should really be 'how much Investiture does a normal spren have, compared to other Invested things in the cosmere?'

[ScarletSabre he/him]

I'm glad someone finally asked those questions, I posed them in the questions thread ages ago XD

I'm still disappointed it got RAFO'd twice in the latest signings, but I think it's because being affected, and reacting, are two different things. It's the difference to a Spren like Syl being able to sense the effect of one of Rashek's Soothing Stations as she passes by, and being affected on a level similar to that of a Kandra by a Soother/Rioter. As sentient Investiture, I wonder if the same kind of control granted by Hemalurgy could be given to a sufficiently boosted/powerful Soother/Rioter...

If it turns out that Spren can be affected by emotional Allomancy, I imagine (and theorise) that a Mistborn, or at least a Soother/Rioter boosted by Nicrosil, would be able to destabilise a Sprenblade (And possibly Shardplate if it's made of lesser Spren as the current prevailing theory states) through intense Emotional Allomancy.

I wonder if Nightblood could be effected by Soothing and Rioting... Since he consumes Investiture, would she just "eat" the Allomantic pulses without being affected?

If Spren CAN be affected, it also raises the question of if Emotional Allomancy effects living beings by causing their brains to pump hormones/chemicals through their systems, which is why Aluminuim over the head can block it, or if something without a Physical Form can be affected, implying it works on the Cognitive Realm...

Edited December 1, 2016 by Rawrbert

[emailanimal he/him]

5 hours ago, Rawrbert said:

'm still disappointed it got RAFO'd twice in the latest signings

The point I was making with this post is that while the core question got RAFO'd, the way in which the animal question got responded essentially allows us to deduce the correct answer to it.  Brandon talks a lot about spren sapience and the effects it has. He makes a lot of other things in Roshar's magic system a function of spren sapience.  So, to me, we effectively have our answer:  random nature spren cannot be Rioted, but Syl -- very much so.

 

This is consistent with what we know about her behavior and behaviors of other spren we have been able to observe in detail: Pattern and Wyndle.  

So... take heart...

[ScarletSabre he/him]

19 hours ago, emailanimal said:

  Brandon talks a lot about spren sapience and the effects it has. He makes a lot of other things in Roshar's magic system a function of spren sapience.  So, to me, we effectively have our answer:  random nature spren cannot be Rioted, but Syl -- very much so.

 

This is consistent with what we know about her behavior and behaviors of other spren we have been able to observe in detail: Pattern and Wyndle.  

So... take heart...

I would wonder about, since Windspren seem to have some level of sapience, given that they generally have a tendency oto play pranks and giggle. I wonder if they have the emotional range/capacity due to this level to be able to be affected by Rioting and Soothing...

I'd say a more accurate  (at least until we know more for sure) answer would be that personified Spren can be affected, but ones that don't seem to have any sapience, like Gloryspren or Intoxicationspren, can't be.

Side note.... Would Emotional Allomancy DRAW the associated Spren? If you used Rioting to bring out someone's terror, would that draw Fearspren?

[Jondesu he/him]

3 hours ago, Rawrbert said:

Side note.... Would Emotional Allomancy DRAW the associated Spren? If you used Rioting to bring out someone's terror, would that draw Fearspren?

I think this part is pretty clearly what Brandon was hinting at. Emotional allomancy may or may not affect spren directly, but if you riot someone's emotions, those emotions should certainly draw the appropriate spren. Which leads to an interest idea: fabrials trap spren, right? Could a Rioter make good money drawing in the right spren for artifabrians to collect by rioting the emotion corresponding to the spren they need?

[Spoolofwhool]

1 minute ago, Jondesu said:

I think this part is pretty clearly what Brandon was hinting at. Emotional allomancy may or may not affect spren directly, but if you riot someone's emotions, those emotions should certainly draw the appropriate spren. Which leads to an interest idea: fabrials trap spren, right? Could a Rioter make good money drawing in the right spren for artifabrians to collect by rioting the emotion corresponding to the spren they need?

That could work, though you would need to find some poor chull who would consent to having his emotions messed with all the time. 

[Jondesu he/him]

7 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

That could work, though you would need to find some poor chull who would consent to having his emotions messed with all the time. 

Eh, one of the artifabrians might be more than willing, or just pay some schmuck to sit in a chair and feel mood swings all day. Not a bad gig, honestly. It's like my tech support job, but without the actual work. 

[Spoolofwhool]

Just now, Jondesu said:

Eh, one of the artifabrians might be more than willing, or just pay some schmuck to sit in a chair and feel mood swings all day. Not a bad gig, honestly. It's like my tech support job, but without the actual work. 

True. There would also be the bonus of being able to measure the long term effects, if any, of someone whose emotions are magically changed repeatedly.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Hm... I have absolutely no clue what emotional allomancy would do to a fully sapient radiant spren like honorspren or cryptics. Probably just effect them like it would effect a real human being? Maybe a little more dramatic effects on them since they are purely cognitive beings?

 

As for other, common spren... I think I can guess what those do.

You know how using windrunner powers attracts windspren?

I bet that if you try to riot someone's anger on Roshar... Angerspren are attracted to you. A lot of them. And they might be acting a little strangely or excited.

This wouldn't probably have any practical effect on the allomancy, but it would make it difficult to stealthily use emotional allomancy on Roshar.

[ScarletSabre he/him]

4 hours ago, Jondesu said:

I think this part is pretty clearly what Brandon was hinting at. Emotional allomancy may or may not affect spren directly, but if you riot someone's emotions, those emotions should certainly draw the appropriate spren. Which leads to an interest idea: fabrials trap spren, right? Could a Rioter make good money drawing in the right spren for artifabrians to collect by rioting the emotion corresponding to the spren they need?

I'm pretty sure the Listeners would have paid all of the gemstones in their beards and hair for that kind of service before WoR!