Most broken Investiture combos?

[Orithiya]

Spoilers! (How do I add that tag?)

I was bored recently and I was wondering- what would be the most broken mixture of investiture you could get? I mean, stuff like the Lord Ruler having Allomancy and Feruchemy together. I was thinking... Could you go more broken? So I'm proposing a contest- who can come up with the most broken pair of Investiture types? (The Knights Radiant are funky so let's say you can pick one order but you get a shardblade and shardplate in the package). So pick 2 magic systems (like a full Mistborn and full feruchemist) that are as stupidly powerful as you can imagine. I'd go with full Mistborn and willshaper because if I Pushed or Pulled hard enough, I could probably orbit my Shardblade around me and become an evil blender of death. Also worldhopping. Which would you pick?

[Spoolofwhool]

You wouldn't be able to push or pull a Shardblade though.  They're too invested. Good thought though. 

If you want broken, honestly IMO steel-steel twinborn is the most broken thing in existence.  You don't even need to be Fullborn. Steel feruchemy compounding from allomancy to get high charge so you can move at extremely high speeds would make you into the ultimate killing machine. Yes, survivability would be an issue, but that's just a limiter.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[manukos]

ok what if a mistborn gave breat to shuriken with thw instraction spin  
and thren puled and pussed them continuously?

 

 

[Spoolofwhool]

3 hours ago, harambe said:

ok what if a mistborn gave breat to shuriken with thw instraction spin  
and thren puled and pussed them continuously?

But that would be excessive. You could just use steel and iron to spin the shuriken while you're moving it anyways. 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Yata]

8 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

You wouldn't be able to push or pull a Shardblade though.  They're too invested. Good thought though. 

If you want broken, honestly IMO steel-steel twinborn is the most broken thing in existence.  You don't even need to be Fullborn. Steel feruchemy compounding from allomancy to get high charge so you can move at extremely high speeds would make you into the ultimate killing machine. Yes, survivability would be an issue, but that's just a limiter.

I want just to make you notice that we have almost always saw being who used Speed-Compound with another features who allow them to go beyond the speed you may usually manage without hurt or kill yourself (F-Steel protect you only from the g-force, you may burn alive or other issues when you start to go too far)....It's indeed a powerful combo, but probably as a twinborn you can't push it too far

[Spoolofwhool]

1 minute ago, Yata said:

I want just to make you notice that we have almost always saw being who used Speed-Compound with another features who allow them to go beyond the speed you may usually manage without hurt or kill yourself (F-Steel protect you only from the g-force, you may burn alive or other issues when you start to go too far)....It's indeed a powerful combo, but probably as a twinborn you can't push it too far

Good point, yes. You're referring to Bleeder being a kandra right? It's possible that the feruchemy would also protect you from the friction of the air. Can't say for certain until we see a twinborn steelrunner.

[Yata]

27 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Good point, yes. You're referring to Bleeder being a kandra right? It's possible that the feruchemy would also protect you from the friction of the air. Can't say for certain until we see a twinborn steelrunner.

Yes, her anatomy or for others gold feruchemy to repair the damage you will suffer (or also heat feruchemy)...Also every impact would probably destroy your bones.

 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Yata

[Djarskublar]

My choice will probably sound strange, but I would be a potion master (or Elantrian if I can get around portability issues) and a gold Allomancer, Twinborn if that is acceptable under your stipulations.

As far as I can tell, the potions from that guy in Elantris could be extremely powerful. Based on the fact that people drank them outside his local area, you most likely brew the Investiture into the potion, so they can be consumed anywhere. There are some of the portability issues gone right there.

I pick gold Allomancer because with these two powers my bet is that you could wildly change yourself to have a fair number of powers in the Cosmere. My WoB from the AU signing basically confirms it. Apparently, it would be extremely easy (relatively speaking) to hack my way into enough Breath to attain basically any heightening I desire.

With gold shadows you can change your personality basically at will, so you can change it to attract a spren pretty easily. Basically, gold shadows are stupidly overpowered if you have a little creativity.

[Landis963]

2 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

My choice will probably sound strange, but I would be a potion master (or Elantrian if I can get around portability issues) and a gold Allomancer, Twinborn if that is acceptable under your stipulations.

As far as I can tell, the potions from that guy in Elantris could be extremely powerful. Based on the fact that people drank them outside his local area, you most likely brew the Investiture into the potion, so they can be consumed anywhere. There are some of the portability issues gone right there.

I pick gold Allomancer because with these two powers my bet is that you could wildly change yourself to have a fair number of powers in the Cosmere. My WoB from the AU signing basically confirms it. Apparently, it would be extremely easy (relatively speaking) to hack my way into enough Breath to attain basically any heightening I desire.

With gold shadows you can change your personality basically at will, so you can change it to attract a spren pretty easily. Basically, gold shadows are stupidly overpowered if you have a little creativity.

Re: the potions: I suspect that Forten could only brew them in his homeland, much like Dakhor monks can only be augmented at Dakhor Monastery.  Which is a bit of a nerf.  Also you might need something extra to make sure the personality changes stick.

[Spoolofwhool]

3 hours ago, Yata said:

Yes, her anatomy or for others gold feruchemy to repair the damage you will suffer (or also heat feruchemy)...Also every impact would probably destroy your bones.

 

True. But at the same time though, kandra cannot make themselves unbreakable and Bleeder still had normal bones but she was stabbing people at high speed. In any case, if impacting through strikes is that dangerous, you can just get around it by using ranged weaponry, or just releasing something so that it vectors through someone. Still, valid points, and it does definitely lower the versatility. At the same time though, since a fullborn can avoid most of the problems, it just goes to show that a fullborn is probably the most broken combination. 

2 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

I pick gold Allomancer because with these two powers my bet is that you could wildly change yourself to have a fair number of powers in the Cosmere. My WoB from the AU signing basically confirms it. Apparently, it would be extremely easy (relatively speaking) to hack my way into enough Breath to attain basically any heightening I desire.

With gold shadows you can change your personality basically at will, so you can change it to attract a spren pretty easily. Basically, gold shadows are stupidly overpowered if you have a little creativity.

Can you link that WoB again? There was however another WoB that stated that it wouldn't be very possible to to enact a obtain the ability to use a manifestation of investiture from another shard using gold feruchemical due to the difference in investiture types. Also, yes, you could obtain any spren type, but you would still be limited in the number you could have since you would reach a point where personality points cancel out, and you would need to actually attract a spren. I also think it was stated that spren are tied to Roshar in some way so surgebinding off of Roshar would require some more hacking if you're gaining surgebinding through a nahel bond.

[Yata]

Don't think it wrong...Steel Feruchemy is really powerful, I just want to point on its limitations.

21 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Can you link that WoB again?

the @Djarskublar 's wob is there: 

 

[Djarskublar]

Dang, @Yata has better ninja skills than me XD

I am taking a slightly different tack with this though, I am saying that you change your personality such that a spren would want to bond with you, not changing your past to be one where a spren had bonded with you.

My opinion is that if you have a coldly logical mind, you could use the gold shadows to attract spren and still retain a highly logical mindset, then after bonding them change your surface personality again to get another spren, but use your logical mind to act in a way to still appease your older spren. Some orders are of course incompatible, but I could see getting 2-4 spren being feasible, if highly demanding.

Basically, I could probably pull this off, because to an extent I am a callous cremling that is willing to manipulate people to no end, but that doesn't make me evil or even in the wrong. The reason for that is how I go about it. I am a very nice person to most people, but it is all calculated to get people to like me and/or do what I need them to. I also compulsively crack awful puns, so that disarms people too. If I was a gold Allomancer, though, I could change my personality slightly so that I retain my calculatedness while changing what kind of actions I take with it so that I fit particular orders exceptionally well. I probably already almost qualify for Lightweavers, and that one sounds pretty easy to maintain once you have fully progressed in it, even with other highly stringent orders. There are probably at least a couple other orders that are similarly easy to maintain. Being honest with yourself? I can do that for magic powers!

I know the spren don't just look at your actions, they look at your reasons for taking them, but after reading Edgedancer (no spoilers here) I think you could pull this off with the right mindset, maybe not mine, but some mindset. This is particularly true since apparently the Words are mutable depending on the person. They are similar, but there is enough difference that I can see the spren accepting a strange personality that still acts how they want. You can use pure logic to hold to your Oaths, since following them is action based, and after you have collected a few spren, you can shift your personality back over to be a solid blend of all the Orders you are a member of so that you can more easily follow them all.

 

That was longer than I had expected... On the subject of potions, yeah you would totally have to brew them wherever Forten's homeland is, but you can use them anywhere. Those potions can probably do some pretty ridiculous things for the highly cosmere aware. They likely will act basically the same as Aons, but maybe have less scope in what they can do. The potion used on Hrathen and Sarene is highly reminiscent of Essence Marks, and they lasted for days on people Forten knew nothing about. I don't think the potions have anywhere near the same restrictions as Forgery, and are probably much better at spiritweb manipulation, so yeah, love me that aspect. Aons can probably do that too, but are less transportable, so I'll take the transportation, but reduced usefulness. Carefully calibrated potions/Aons could likely mimic the effects of Lerasium. Nuff sed.

Cognitive and Spiritual manipulation are probably the best powers a sapient could ask for, and gold Allomancy and Dor manipulation fit the bill for that combo quite well.

[Pagerunner]

A Mistborn who can 'slatrify,' except instead of water they turn sand into metal. (I'd like to get some more details on the Realmatics of slatrification, but, hey, it's somewhat plausible.)

[Spoolofwhool]

52 minutes ago, Djarskublar said:

Dang, @Yata has better ninja skills than me XD

That was longer than I had expected... On the subject of potions, yeah you would totally have to brew them wherever Forten's homeland is, but you can use them anywhere. Those potions can probably do some pretty ridiculous things for the highly cosmere aware. They likely will act basically the same as Aons, but maybe have less scope in what they can do. The potion used on Hrathen and Sarene is highly reminiscent of Essence Marks, and they lasted for days on people Forten knew nothing about. I don't think the potions have anywhere near the same restrictions as Forgery, and are probably much better at spiritweb manipulation, so yeah, love me that aspect. Aons can probably do that too, but are less transportable, so I'll take the transportation, but reduced usefulness. Carefully calibrated potions/Aons could likely mimic the effects of Lerasium. Nuff sed.

Cognitive and Spiritual manipulation are probably the best powers a sapient could ask for, and gold Allomancy and Dor manipulation fit the bill for that combo quite well.

Yes, I got that was what you wanted to do, attract spren versus just creating them, which isn't as feasible.

On the subject of potions, I would agree with you since we haven't seen enough of them to form a good idea of what they're capable of. All that we know is that they can manipulate physical, and while that does imply cognitive manipulation to do that, we don't know if it can do spiritweb maniupulation, or if it does, if that would be finer than forgery. Also, it's possible that the potions are more dangerous, and can have negative effects if you incorrectly take into account spiritweb points when trying to change the spiritweb, unlike forgery which just doesn't work. Finally, in general I don't consider forgery or the potion-making as overpowered since they're unable to be properly reactive.  You can any prepare them in anticipation of facing certain events, and considering limited supplies of what you can bring, you won't be able to handle near-enough. 

I agree that any power in the realm of cognitive and spiritual manipulation are the most useful by far.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Exalted]

The Abrasion and Gravitation surges together have some insane potential for abuse--a constant acceleration that's potentially incredibly high in any direction you want, with no fear of terminal velocity or burning up if you Slick yourself to avoid air drag. And since it's Stormlight, you'd be able to heal as well. I'd argue that it's even better than Twinborn steel if you can learn how to control it properly (and have enough Stormlight to get up to an acceleration value comparable to Feruchemical steel), but stopping would be a real issue. Unless you're okay with slamming into things really hard...

[Spoolofwhool]

16 minutes ago, miner3203 said:

The Abrasion and Gravitation surges together have some insane potential for abuse--a constant acceleration that's potentially incredibly high in any direction you want, with no fear of terminal velocity or burning up if you Slick yourself to avoid air drag. And since it's Stormlight, you'd be able to heal as well. I'd argue that it's even better than Twinborn steel if you can learn how to control it properly (and have enough Stormlight to get up to an acceleration value comparable to Feruchemical steel), but stopping would be a real issue. Unless you're okay with slamming into things really hard...

The problem with that is that you wouldn't be able to obtain the ability to bind the surge of abrasion and the surge of gravitation at the same time naturally, unless you manage to either obtain two honorblades or attract two spren of the necessary order. Other than that, it would be pretty impressive. Stopping wouldn't be a problem since you can just lash yourself in the other direction.

[Djarskublar]

I would argue that iron feruchemy and abrasion are better. Iron Feruchemy allows for ridiculous acceleration by changing your tap/store rate. Abrasion allows you to maintain your speed better even while super light.

[Exalted]

7 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

The problem with that is that you wouldn't be able to obtain the ability to bind the surge of abrasion and the surge of gravitation at the same time naturally, unless you manage to either obtain two honorblades or attract two spren of the necessary order. Other than that, it would be pretty impressive. Stopping wouldn't be a problem since you can just lash yourself in the other direction.

Well, you do have a point there. The easiest ("easy" being relative) way to go about it would probably be to attract one of the spren naturally (there are four possible orders there, so chances are at least one of them could be construed to fit your personality) and steal the Honorblade for the other surge. But again, easy is relative...