Kered he/him Posted November 7, 2016 Posted November 7, 2016 So, I have a question. How likely is it that Odium will be the "main" antagonist only in the first 5 five SA books, and the so called opposing force of the Adonalsium will take over the back 5? We know that the break between the first 5 and last five will be decades, in world. Could that gap be filled with the KR learning of the "force"? Could they learn of it during the end fight with Odium? I could see this being an excellent opportunity to bring in other cosmere worlds/stories into SA. Getting all prepared for the "final battle" against this force? I haven't scoured the books yet to look for clues for this, I wanted to get your guys read on it. Thoughts?
Eki Posted November 7, 2016 Posted November 7, 2016 I really think many people have read too much into that WoB; basically anything could be defined as an "opposing force". And we already KNOW one existed, because, well, Adonalsium is shattered. However, we do know that whatever the opposing force is, it created a weapon. THAT may become important later on, but I guess it won't be until the sci-fi mistborn trilogy. The different series are supposed to be mostly self-contained, with Cosmere references being easter eggs and background information, but not necessary to understand the stories by themselves. But once the worlds interact more in the last Mistborn trilogy, that's when the Cosmere will be involved directly.
Spoolofwhool Posted November 7, 2016 Posted November 7, 2016 (edited) Unlikely that the opposing force of Adonalsium will be a villain at any point since the most accepted theory regarding that is that the force was the organization of people who became the first shardholders plus a few others. In other words, Ati, Leras, Rayse, Bavadin, etc, plus perhaps a few others like Hoid. Also, I'm fairly certain that it has been stated that SA is planned to be Cosmere-independent with regards to understanding its main story, so any major plot point theory that requires greater Cosmere knowledge is moot. Edited November 7, 2016 by Spoolofwhool
Chaos he/him Posted November 7, 2016 Posted November 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said: Unlikely that the opposing force of Adonalsium will be a villain at any point since the most accepted theory regarding that is that the force was the organization of people who became the first shardholders plus a few others. In other words, Ati, Leras, Rayse, Bavadin, etc, plus perhaps a few others like Hoid. That's the commonly accepted theory? I don't agree with that. That is totally different from the context of the first quotes where we heard of Adonalsium's opposition. I strongly do not believe this to be a group of people. The Vessels, I'm sure, were originally ordinary. There is no doubt in my mind that Adonalsium's opposition is a magical force that exists. It created a weapon and I presume that weapon was used against Adonalsium in the Vessels' plan to break it. I could be wrong but it's not an ordinary thing. It's not an organization of magic users or whatever the Vessels were prior to their ascensions. But that's a bit off topic, feel free to guide me to where people are commonly accepting such a theory and I shall make long posts to dissuade them. I'm pretty sure. I'm the guy who asked about this in signed books multiple times. I would bet money it is more than that. Anyway, I don't think it's safe to say that this is the dominant wisdom on the subject. Still, to the topic at hand. I do expect Stormlight to not be that heavy on the overall cosmere stuff. It'll probably remain Roshar centric. 1
Spoolofwhool Posted November 7, 2016 Posted November 7, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Chaos said: That's the commonly accepted theory? I don't agree with that. That is totally different from the context of the first quotes where we heard of Adonalsium's opposition. I strongly do not believe this to be a group of people. The Vessels, I'm sure, were originally ordinary. There is no doubt in my mind that Adonalsium's opposition is a magical force that exists. It created a weapon and I presume that weapon was used against Adonalsium in the Vessels' plan to break it. I could be wrong but it's not an ordinary thing. It's not an organization of magic users or whatever the Vessels were prior to their ascensions. But that's a bit off topic, feel free to guide me to where people are commonly accepting such a theory and I shall make long posts to dissuade them. I'm pretty sure. I'm the guy who asked about this in signed books multiple times. I would bet money it is more than that. Anyway, I don't think it's safe to say that this is the dominant wisdom on the subject. Maybe not the commonly accepted theory, but whenever the Adonalsium's opposing force comes up, I always see people saying it's been fairly agreed that it was that group, and not an actual other super-entity. I don't actually have any idea on the matter since I haven't read Dragonsteel or anything. I don't have an issue with that theory since I haven't seen any WoBs which contradict it, but really, I think any idea goes. Edited November 7, 2016 by Spoolofwhool 2
cometaryorbit Posted November 7, 2016 Posted November 7, 2016 I think the group of Vessels thing comes from this: Quote Interview: Feb 22nd, 2016 Calamity-Chicago Question Was the shattering of Adonalsium done, for the forces to attack the Anti-Adonalsium? Brandon Sanderson You’re focusing too much on the idea of the anti-adonalsium. What was really asked is “is there a force that opposes Adonalsium” and it left me a lot of wiggle room. In other words, the people who killed it was a force, or any person who opposed Adonalsium you could say is a force. What they were trying to get was a “devil” but that assumes Adonalsium is a more Christian-style God, and I have not confirmed any of that. Tags Adonalsium, shattering, 4
Chaos he/him Posted November 7, 2016 Posted November 7, 2016 Thanks for that quote! I will need to revise my thoughts on this. It seems this matter is rather central to the Shattering so I doubt we will get answers soon. I am, essentially now, the guy who didn't do their homework so -1000 points to me. Sorry.
WindrunnerRadiant he/him Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 Keep in mind that even in the quote cometaryorbit, Sanderson doesn't state anything specific. Rather, in that quote he simply makes it clear how broad the interpretation could be. He may say that he hasn't confirmed Adonalsium as a Christian-style god with an opposing "devil," but he hasn't confirmed it isn't. I encourage you to keep your ideas open and that the accepted theory isn't necessarily true. As for the original question, it does seem likely that Odium is the main antagonist and the "opposing force" is the main antagonistic presence for the next five, but that force could be anything, from an organization that caused the events surrounding the breaking to an anti-Adonalsium. I think it is more likely that it is some sort of organization based on what we have seen on Scadrial. I doubt the events there can be attributed to another shard as I believe Harmony would recognize the presence or power of another shard. I think it is more likely that a group discovered a way to use investiture without it being connected to Adonalsium or the Shards and that this either led to the shattering or that Adonalsium had to be shattered for it to work.
cometaryorbit Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 3 hours ago, WindrunnerRadiant said: Keep in mind that even in the quote cometaryorbit, Sanderson doesn't state anything specific. Rather, in that quote he simply makes it clear how broad the interpretation could be. Oh, certainly. But I nonetheless think that's where the idea that "opposing force" is the Vessels comes from (whether it is correct or not).
ROSHtaFARian2.0 Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 I'd also like to point out that even if and when Odium does come to be defeated, that doesn't mean that any other cosmere wide villain to follow him would necessarily need to be of a magnitude of power greater than him - ie an opposite to Adonalsium. Odium is the most visible cosmere-wide antagonist we've seen thus far, and the only Shard we know of who has Shattered other Shards....and yes, we've been told that Rayse was probably the worst of the original 16 Vessels even before picking up Odium, which has been described as the most fearsome of the Shards. But that doesn't necessarily mean we won't eventually see another Shard who's a greater threat even than Odium. Being the most obviously fearsome of the Shards doesn't necessarily make him the most dangerous. Another Shard could have an Intent that's less obviously destructive and an agenda that doesn't hinge on killing off the other Shards....and yet still be just as great a threat to the cosmere, if not more. After all, if Ruin hadn't been held in check by Preservation, he could have easily been a cosmere wide threat himself. And there's still several other Shards out there. Also, something else to think about as a possible successor to Odium as a main cosmere antagonist...Brandon has stated multiple times that Harmony is what Odium was afraid would happen if two Shards merged. He's also stated that Odium would never pick up another Shard because he doesn't want to be influenced by another Shard's Intent. However....that doesn't mean there aren't other Shards out there that wouldn't be interested in picking up Odium's Shard and adding it to their own. So we could very well yet see a Odium + Another Shard combo similar to Harmony.....just with someone other than Rayse in the driver's seat.
The One Who Connects he/him Posted November 11, 2016 Posted November 11, 2016 Additional (potential) backstory to why the "opposing force was the vessels" got popular: Brandon somewhat stated that there wasn't an "anti-Adonalsium" in the way we seemed to think about it. Source Quote Does Hoid believe that Shards are the most powerful thing? Brandon Sanderson You'll have to ask him sometime. [gives troll grin]. Or see him get asked something like that sometime. There's argument to be made that right now Harmony is the most powerful thing in the Cosmere. The emphasized text implies that Adonalsium did not (or at least currently does not) have an opposite of similar power. Harmony, being ~1/8th of Adonalsium, is arguably the most powerful being in the Cosmere. It is my belief that this concept started the theory of the "Opposition" being the vessels, as they are not stronger, but were still, in a sense, opposed.
Steelheart Posted November 14, 2016 Posted November 14, 2016 On 11/6/2016 at 7:40 PM, KereDerek said: So, I have a question. How likely is it that Odium will be the "main" antagonist only in the first 5 five SA books, and the so called opposing force of the Adonalsium will take over the back 5? We know that the break between the first 5 and last five will be decades, in world. Could that gap be filled with the KR learning of the "force"? Could they learn of it during the end fight with Odium? I could see this being an excellent opportunity to bring in other cosmere worlds/stories into SA. Getting all prepared for the "final battle" against this force? I haven't scoured the books yet to look for clues for this, I wanted to get your guys read on it. Thoughts? The break b/n SA 5 and 6 will be around 15 years (can't find that source, but here's a link where he says the entire SA takes place over 20 years)
Recommended Posts