Horneaters affected by the Voidbringers

[bdoble97]

At first I assume that the horneaters would eventually join the newly  formed Kight Radiance fighting alongside them against the voidbringers. My line of thought on this was that Rock is more important than he's been letting on and that the horneater people would be excited to fight along the side of spren and the Knights Radiant.  But it is said that the the horneaters have Parshindie blood in thier DNA so could some of the horneaters or all be affected by the storm that the voidbringers Parshendi created. I know Shallan has horneater blood in her due to the fact she had res hair and Rock calls her cousin. But I don't think anything is going to happen to her.  The more I write about this the less likely I think it's going to happen. But what I want to have happen is the horneaters join the forces with the newly-formed Knights Radiant and kick some voidebring chull. But time will tell and I can't wait for book 3. 

[Massik he/him]

Rock can see Syl, and holds her in reverence.  There's definitely some story there, and story about Rock's past would be great. 

I don't know that Horneaters would be affected by the Everstorm/stormform.  They don't mind link with song, or choose a form, IIRC.  But if their shared DNA did mean something in that regard, my thoughts might go to whether Horneaters would play a role in stopping the Stormforms.  

Edited October 23, 2016 by Massik

[bdoble97]

4 hours ago, Massik said:

Rock can see Syl, and holds her in reverence.  There's definitely some story there, and story about Rock's past would be great. 

I don't know that Horneaters would be affected by the Everstorm/stormform.  They don't mind link with song, or choose a form, IIRC.  But if their shared DNA did mean something in that regard, my thoughts might go to whether Horneaters would play a role in stopping the Stormforms.  

Do we know %100 that the horneaters don't have a type of mind link. Correct me if I'm wrong but I dont think  we have seen two horneaters together in ether of the two books. 

[AngelEy3 he/him]

2 hours ago, bdoble97 said:

Do we know %100 that the horneaters don't have a type of mind link. Correct me if I'm wrong but I dont think  we have seen two horneaters together in ether of the two books. 

Closest we got to that, I believe, was Rock and Shallan in the same scene.

[Massik he/him]

4 hours ago, bdoble97 said:

Do we know %100 that the horneaters don't have a type of mind link. Correct me if I'm wrong but I dont think  we have seen two horneaters together in ether of the two books. 

This is why I added caveats.  

Saying that IIRC/as far as we know they dont.  But if they did, they might just as easily go towards stopping them as they would to joining them.  

[Tariniel he/him]

The blood connection could simply be the reason why Rock is able to see spren, and that's that. It doesn't have to extend any further...

[Rasarr she/her]

Wasn't the reason Rock can see spren the fact that he took a bath in what's implied to be a Perpendicularity, though? If so, his ability isn't necessarily tied to his Listener ancestors.

[bdoble97]

4 hours ago, Massik said:

This is why I added caveats.  

Saying that IIRC/as far as we know they dont.  But if they did, they might just as easily go towards stopping them as they would to joining them.  

I don'twant them affected by the voidbing at all I want to see a huge Army of Hornitos joining the Knights of Radiance. 

[Jondesu he/him]

53 minutes ago, Rasarr said:

Wasn't the reason Rock can see spren the fact that he took a bath in what's implied to be a Perpendicularity, though? If so, his ability isn't necessarily tied to his Listener ancestors.

That's implied by Rock, but it's also implied within the book that he might have just been making that up, or that there's more to it.  I get the impression he was able to do that without harm by virtue of something about him, which may or may not also be the reason he can see the spren.

[AnAirSickLowLander]

53 minutes ago, Rasarr said:

Wasn't the reason Rock can see spren the fact that he took a bath in what's implied to be a Perpendicularity, though? If so, his ability isn't necessarily tied to his Listener ancestors.

From what I remember, he was born able to see spren.  When he swam in the lake he saw a person with white hair and Sigzil found it very interesting.

[Massik he/him]

1 hour ago, bdoble97 said:

I don'twant them affected by the voidbing at all I want to see a huge Army of Hornitos joining the Knights of Radiance. 

I would like so as well.  What I'm getting at is that if- if- they do share any of that, they could be essentially secret weapons for the KR; having special insight, or used as fire to fight fire.  

It was your supposition, btw.  I'm just making posits along those lines, since it seems to be the context of the convo, here.  

[Rasarr she/her]

16 hours ago, Numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor said:

From what I remember, he was born able to see spren.

Ah, alright. I've made a quick trip to the Coppermind, and indeed, you're right. Still, he appears to be unaffected by the Everstorm even though he was there at its inception, so perhaps Listeners are far enough in Unkalaki lineage that the voidspren can't impact them any more.

[AnAirSickLowLander]

41 minutes ago, Rasarr said:

Ah, alright. I've made a quick trip to the Coppermind, and indeed, you're right. Still, he appears to be unaffected by the Everstorm even though he was there at its inception, so perhaps Listeners are far enough in Unkalaki lineage that the voidspren can't impact them any more.

Thats what I would guess.  As far as horn eaters go, it seems like Rock might have more of a connection to his parshendi ancestry since he can see spren like they can.  If the ever storm did not affect him then I would guess (and hope) that it will not affect the rest of the horn eaters.

[bdoble97]

2 hours ago, Numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor said:

Thats what I would guess.  As far as horn eaters go, it seems like Rock might have more of a connection to his parshendi ancestry since he can see spren like they can.  If the ever storm did not affect him then I would guess (and hope) that it will not affect the rest of the horn eaters.

Was rock ever hit by the Everstorm or did he and the rest of bridge 4 go tbrought the oathgate before it could hit him. 

[VladJunior]

All names in Horneater country are poems. Rock insists upon "can't remember his name in TWOK bridgeman, Dunny?" singing when he learns he can sing. Rock hums to himself when he cooks. His people built their society near the perpendicularity with either Honor or Cultivation (probably Honor, maybe both). I would not be surprised if they have a small attachment to the same Connection that the Parshendi have. Maybe not as strong. But some part of the sDNA is there. And why would the horneater mythology tell the story of a people in search of a place to belong (outcasts) who are rejected by the gods, unless they were offspring of Parshendi and humans or some such mixed breed? Great theory bdoble97. Don't know if there will be traitors who follow Odium, or if they are the people who will destroy the stormform (or fight it off the best), but we know they are unique compared to other Rosharans. Maybe we will learn more about Rock and his people in Book3.

[AnAirSickLowLander]

On 10/24/2016 at 11:52 AM, bdoble97 said:

Was rock ever hit by the Everstorm or did he and the rest of bridge 4 go tbrought the oathgate before it could hit him. 

I just looked over that part of the books and I don't think it says specifically if Rock was in the storm or not.  It say the storm hit and men were thrown into the chasms and crushed by large rocks but Rock was with Shallan and could have been in the building the entire time.  Since there was a hole cut in the building and the Everstorm was there, strom spren could have entered the room.  It seems like this would have been mentioned by Shallan if they had but there was a lot going on.  Also, Rock could have stepped outside looking for the other members of bridge four but we don't know about that either.  So at this point I would say that we don't have proof either way if Rock was in or out of the storm but I'm leaning towards out of the storm.  

[Massik he/him]

So, the RAFOlympics Brandon did says that even listeners won't necessarily convert to stormform.  There is an element of will that comes into play.  So, even if Horneaters could/can change, it means they won't if they don't want to.  

[bdoble97]

3 hours ago, Massik said:

So, the RAFOlympics Brandon did says that even listeners won't necessarily convert to stormform.  There is an element of will that comes into play.  So, even if Horneaters could/can change, it means they won't if they don't want to.  

Or maybe thay can chose to change into somthingels like a good version of stormform.

[Massik he/him]

3 hours ago, bdoble97 said:

Or maybe thay can chose to change into somthingels like a good version of stormform.

Perhaps.. I also hope that if they change they'd be "good guys".  

But thinking and reading deeper, the spren that cause stormform to manifest are pretty much ragespren.  

Still, it's of note that not even all of the Parshendi will necessarily take stormform.  This gives me hope for Shen.    

[bdoble97]

18 minutes ago, Massik said:

Perhaps.. I also hope that if they change they'd be "good guys".  

But thinking and reading deeper, the spren that cause stormform to manifest are pretty much ragespren.  

Still, it's of note that not even all of the Parshendi will necessarily take stormform.  This gives me hope for Shen.    

It would be cool if they chang into a new type of higher being "good  guys". Shen is going to be impotent 

[cuimhne she/her]

On 10/27/2016 at 0:52 PM, Massik said:

So, the RAFOlympics Brandon did says that even listeners won't necessarily convert to stormform.  There is an element of will that comes into play.  So, even if Horneaters could/can change, it means they won't if they don't want to.  

Do you have the exact phrasing of that? My understanding (though this may just be from my head) is that there are several different forms of voidspren. The everstorm may force the parshmen to change into one of those forms, which may or may not be stormform. I've always assumed that we would see several of the ancient Listener forms (i.e. nightform, decayform) as a result of the Everstorm.

Somewhere on here I read that it is possible for humans to bond with Voidspren, but it is more difficult than for the Parshendi. That also applies to Horneaters. Personally, I don't think all of the Horneaters will choose the same path. They are human (mostly), and humans have the right to choose. I suspect that some besides Rock will join the Radiants, others will try to stay out of it, and some may choose to join the Parshendi. 

On 10/27/2016 at 8:11 PM, bdoble97 said:

It would be cool if they chang into a new type of higher being "good  guys". Shen is going to be impotent 

I'm pretty sure you meant "important," not powerless.  Another interesting aspect of Shen's future is that he is (presumably) one of Kaladin's squires. So we have a Parshendi, one of the Ancient Ones who may or may not be forced into the form of a Voidbringer, who is in some way bound to one of the Knights Radiant. That will be an interesting twist.

[cuimhne she/her]

So, I was somewhat surprised at the direction of this thread. My impression was that the parshmen and Listeners would all be forced into a new -- evil -- form. But while looking for the names of Listener forms in the WoR epigraphs, I found this Listener stanza:

Quote

"Smokeform for hiding and slipping between men. / A form of power, like human Surges. / Bring it 'round again. / Though crafted of gods, / It was by Unmade hand. / Leaves its force to be but one of foe or friend." (Chapter 25 epigraph)

 The last line could support the general opinion that not all Listeners will be evil. I certainly hope that is the case, especially for Eshonai and Shen/Rlain. 

[cuimhne she/her]

On 10/24/2016 at 11:52 AM, bdoble97 said:

Was rock ever hit by the Everstorm or did he and the rest of bridge 4 go tbrought the oathgate before it could hit him. 

Like Numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor said, we don't really have any proof one way or the other. But, we do know that Rlain was with them, and did not change forms. After both storms pass, Rlain is with the other bridgemen who meet Kaladin on the plateau and lead him to Urithiru, and he is not in stormform. We know this because he has a skull plate and not hair strands. So, either we have proof that Rlain was not exposed to the Everstorm, or we have proof that the Listeners will not all be forced to transform. We don't know how his (presumably) being one of Kaladin's squires will affect things.

[Massik he/him]

3 hours ago, cuimhne said:

Do you have the exact phrasing of that? My understanding (though this may just be from my head) is that there are several different forms of voidspren. The everstorm may force the parshmen to change into one of those forms, which may or may not be stormform. I've always assumed that we would see several of the ancient Listener forms (i.e. nightform, decayform) as a result of the Everstorm.

Somewhere on here I read that it is possible for humans to bond with Voidspren, but it is more difficult than for the Parshendi. That also applies to Horneaters. Personally, I don't think all of the Horneaters will choose the same path. They are human (mostly), and humans have the right to choose. I suspect that some besides Rock will join the Radiants, others will try to stay out of it, and some may choose to join the Parshendi. 

I'm pretty sure you meant "important," not powerless.  Another interesting aspect of Shen's future is that he is (presumably) one of Kaladin's squires. So we have a Parshendi, one of the Ancient Ones who may or may not be forced into the form of a Voidbringer, who is in some way bound to one of the Knights Radiant. That will be an interesting twist.

[25:55]
Q: A dullform Listener is indoors when the Everstorm passes over, will they be transformed into
a Voidform?
A: No. It depends on the strength of the boundary between them, but it is possible for them
to...Being transformed, taking new forms, there is a measure of will behind it, meaning for
instance, even when Eshonai took the new form, she had herself open to taking a new form. By
the time she didn’t want to, it was too late. But she had made the decision, even though she’d
been kind of misled in some ways. If a parshmen were even in the Everstorm, and aggressively
didn't want this to happen, I'm not saying they won't, but there is room for discussion whether or
not they would change there. But also one who DOES want to, and there's only a pane of glass
and things like that, then yeah.

----------------

So...  They won't necessarily change, if they don't want to.  Perhaps I worded the "won't" too strongly regarding Horneaters.  

[SpeakoftheDeval]

I could see there being a scene where voidbringers do everything they can to tempt the horneaters into transformation.