Brightshade the Cunning Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) Note: I haven't been very active within the 17th shard, and don't know if this idea has been brought up before. Also, this will jump back and forth between several Cosmere works, but will mainly focus on Warbreaker. Now to begin... I was recently rereading Warbreaker when I noticed something interesting. Specifically on page 129 when Llarimar is talking to Lightsong about why he would have returned Quote On the other side, the future is visible, like a scroll that stretches into the eternal harmonics of the cosmos. Something you saw - something about the future - worried you. As to how this origin is specifically is important, in Mistborn: Secret History Spoiler we get to see Kelsier in the Cognitive Realm, which is essentially a mirror of Scadrial We also get to see the Cognitive Realm from Jasnah and Shallan's point of views in the Stormlight Archives, essentially a world filled with an ocean of spheres. With the way the Cognitive Realm is shown on these shardworlds, it can be seen that the Cognitive Realm mirrors the Physical Realm and is where people go after dying, but only temporarily in most cases. As to how the amount of time someone remains within the Cognitive Realm affects the origin of the Returned, we know that after a few moments, minutes tops, the soul, or Cognitive Shadow, moves on to the Spiritual Realm. Within Warbreaker, when Llarimar reveals Ligtsong's former life, he mentions that they found him dead, and then he Returned. This means that Lightsong had been dead for a relatively long amount of time, as he had died at sea and they had had to recover his body. Most likely within this circumstance, Lightsong had moved on to the Spiritual Realm, and then Returned. Another reason to support Lightsong's journey to the Spiritual Realm, is the perception of time. As shown in both shardworlds, time moves parallel between the cognitive and physical realms. This means that the future couldn't be seen in either of these. With this knowledge of the realms, anything that does not play into the present status of the Cosmere, must occur within the Spiritual Realm. This is supported within the Emperor's Soul as the magic system, forging, works by changing the past of the person or object being affected, and has also been mentioned as pertaining to the Spirtiual Realm. With this idea in mind, the quote from earlier mentions the future, which is not the present, and therefore would likely occur within the Spiritual Realm. I must now humbly admit that this is a theory, and is simply based upon what was seemingly a revelation to me as I was reading. However, I do ask that you take this seriously, and take whatever thoughts it inspires to new heights, and maybe even offer more evidence to support this theory, or tweak it slightly to make it fit better within the cosmere. Edited October 16, 2016 by cljehja no tags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) You quoted some scenes of Secret History therefore I imagine I can use that book to expose a (probably) answer. Endowment may do the same thing you quoted with Preservation-Kelsier. Arrive to "welcome" the new deadman in the Cognitive, show him/her a glimpse of the Future with a fast trip into the Spiritual and ask him "do you want Return to change it ?". About the timing I have two possible explainations: 1) Endowment once there give to the guy more time to remain in the Cognitive until the circumstances are right for resurrect him. 2) Nalthisian are more Invested than other human being (we see just the Scadrial one and they are more Invested than an average Human Being) this mean that they have more time in the Cognitive Realm before going in to the Beyond. EDIT: Reading again your question, I have a doubt: Once the "time in the Cognitive" ends the guy don't go in the Spiritual Realm, instead He is pulled in the Beyond...a "Place" outside the Three Realms where not even the Shards (from a direct quote of one of them, but maybe other may do it) can reach or know Edited October 16, 2016 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightshade the Cunning Posted October 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Thanks for the clarification of them being pulled to the Beyond rather than any of the realms after their Cognitive Shadow leaves the Cognitive Realm. However, when Lightsong remembers his vision from when he died the first time (I haven't finished my reread yet), I seem to recall that he didn't see any of the shards when he saw the vision. Also, I have an interesting tie off to my thoughts on the spiritual realm, specifically the passage of time their, I'm going to post this idea relatively soon so watch out for it and give any input you can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Well Endowment have to put the things in motion, and ask to Lightsong if He want to Return to change what He said. This is sure. Maybe She wasn't simply without a specific form (like sometime Preservation or Ruin did in Secret History) or simply Lightsong didn't remember her look. This is true whatever the Returning happens...just we saw (a bit) of Spiritual Realm and the description didn't fit. The Spiritual Realm is a place of pure Connections between Entities....and Lightsond didn't describe nothing like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Well, Preservation says to Kelsier that looking at the Spiritual Realm is really dangerous. Probably Endowment gives Returned-candidates a limited glimpse of the future, but not a full window into the Spiritual. I think it has to work by looking into the Spiritual to some degree, though - even atium's second or so of foresight works that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 People die and go to the Cognitive. Their innate investiture allows them to resist the call of the Beyond for longer. I can't find for sure where Brandon said it (the annotation's maybe?) but the reason that Clod acts differently from other Lifeless has to do with the amount of Breath he held when he died preserving some of his cognitive aspect. This appears to fit eith investiture resisting the Beyond idea. That could account for his surviving the time gap brfore returning. Actually, spoiler just because youre rereading: Spoiler Wasn't he only dead for a relatively short time before returning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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