metal as a form of power

[manukos he/him]

so i've always been curious about this 

in the mistborn novels it is a theme that "metal is power " and this applies to both  shards residing in scadrial 

but this doesnt seem to be true for any of the other shards (you could say that Honor's shardplates and blades are "metal" but i think that it's a stretch)

If it was only one i would had assumed that it is only normal , diferent aspects of god draw their powers fron diferent sources, but both ?

(it could be becouse they are opposites but then that would require more of the shards to be paired)

i understand that writing with a goal of unifying stories is hard and that propably some books were published before the idea of the cosmere developed into a plan 

Do you have any theories for why that happens ?

 

 

also sidequestion: why is it that Leras said that he couldnt create a world alone ,even though many other shards created worlds on there own ?

 

 

[Yata he/him]

Quite simply (as may be a Law of Universal Magic in a fictional world) in the Cosmere, the Magic Systems (Allomancy, feruchemy, surgebinding,ecc...) arise spontaneously from the Interaction between one or more Shards and the Shardworld (planet) they invest their power into.

This mean that if Shards invested their powers in a planet, soon or later on that planet magic will born. This magic is fueled by the Shards's power.

How Do the Shards and the planet "forge" the Magic Systems ? Quite easly (from a Magic Cosmical PoV) the Shard who fuels a magic influences how the Magic is accessed while the Shardworld dictates a Specific element called Focus through the Shard's power express itself.

In your specific example:

Scadrial's Focus is "Metal" and as you may see the Metallic Art are based on the Metals....Preservation's influence may be see about how someone becomes an allomancer. In the standard case, to Snap an Allomancer. You have to suffer a great stress (physical, mental or emotional) who push you to try to preserve yourself.

(We didn't figure yet what the Roshar's Focus is)

For your second question, a Shard is something limited by his own "role". It's what we called a Shard's Intent or Mandate(some sharder like more the first one, other the second....as far as I know "mandate" is more canon, but I like more Intent)....A Shard can't do something aganist his Mandate (without a great effort) . In the case of Preservation create something is aganist his own mandate because Preservation itself is a force of statis....not a dinamic force who create or destroy.

EDIT: Fixed some grammar errors

Edited October 8, 2016 by Yata

[Eki]

The magic on a planet seems to be a combination of the shards themselves, and the actual planet. There is some kind of analogue to a "soul" of a planet. So possibly, neither Preservation nor Ruin are necessarily connected to metal: it might be Scadrial itself. The equivalent on Roshar, for example, seems to be gemstones. It's also possible that the metal focus grew out naturally from both shards Investing in the same planet. We know an interaction like that can result in a third magic system (Feruchemy), so it might have other effects too. I believe more in the first theory though.

I think Leras couldn't create life on his own because life requires change, which went against his Intent to Preserve.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

There's also the fact that as far as we know, Ruin and Preservation are the only ones that properly "created" a world. Unless otherwise stated, the other worlds were created by Adonalsium, who was said to be literally the power of creation. Roshar specifically was created by him

[soyperson]

1 hour ago, Yata said:

In your specific example, Scadrial's Focus is "Metal" and as you may see the Metallic Art are based on the Metals....Preservation's influence may be see about how someone become an allomancer. In the standard case, to Snap an Allomancer. You have to suffer a great stress (physical, mental or emotional) who push you to try to preserve yourself.

(We didn't figure yet what the Roshar's Focus is)

 

Some other examples of Focus are Nalthis (Warbreaker) with Color, and Sel (Elantris, The Emperor's Soul) with Form.

[Yata he/him]

9 hours ago, bleeder said:

Some other examples of Focus are Nalthis (Warbreaker) with Color, and Sel (Elantris, The Emperor's Soul) with Form.

Actually Nalthis's Focus is "Command" not Color....The Colors on Nalthis are probably like the "mist" on Scadrial

[soyperson]

7 hours ago, Yata said:

Actually Nalthis's Focus is "Command" not Color....The Colors on Nalthis are probably like the "mist" on Scadrial

It is? Oh, I had just assumed that one, since, y'know, effects of the magic system 'n' all. Thanks for informing me of this

Could Roshar's be Will? Like, as in willpower?

Edited October 7, 2016 by bleeder

[Yata he/him]

17 hours ago, bleeder said:

Could Roshar's be Will? Like, as in willpower?

Like I said in my first reply, we don't actually know it but Will is quite impossible because Intent is quite a forced element in every Cosmere's magic

What I can do, it's list here the "candidates" for Roshar's focus that the Sharder proposed:

- Bonds (It's the theory I like more)

- gemstone

- Spren

- light

- Color

Maybe I forgot some other theory but at the moment I can't remember more of them

Edited October 8, 2016 by Yata

[manukos he/him]

 

17 hours ago, Yata said:

 

What I can do, it's list here the "candidates" for Roshar's focus that the Sharder proposed:

- Bonds (It's the theory I like more)

- gemstone

- Spren

- light

- Color

well from the beformentioned color , light and gemstones are all basicaly stormlight .

I always  considered that the focus was either strormlight or spren , but your idea of bonds never crossed my mind and it is a very interesting one

 

and my problem with metal is that unlike form and command which are abstruct concepts loosely  related tou the nature of the shard , metal is smt, well that u can touch 

i  understand what u say but what determines the focus? is it the intencion of the shard ,does it derive from the world as in what whould fit best ,or  is it intentional ?

 

[Yata he/him]

Just now, harambe said:

well from the beformentioned color , light and gemstones are all basicaly stormlight .

I always  considered that the focus was either strormlight or spren , but your idea of bonds never crossed my mind and it is a very interesting one

I think the same Stormlight is Raw Investiture and gemstone are not trasversal present in the magic systems (Surgebinding for example)....To be honest I think Gemstone are for Roshar, what Mist are for Scadrial and (maybe) Color for Nalthis

3 minutes ago, harambe said:

and my problem with metal is that unlike form and command which are abstruct concepts loosely  related tou the nature of the shard , metal is smt, well that u can touch 

Yes and indeed this allow to it to be quite peculiar (but probably not unique concept) in the Cosmere. But you have to remember that Scadrial was created as part of Preservation's masterplan. He wanted a world where he may stock Ruin's power and people with the ability to remove it from the system (for a while)

5 minutes ago, harambe said:

i  understand what u say but what determines the focus? is it the intencion of the shard ,does it derive from the world as in what whould fit best ,or  is it intentional ?

This question is a bit hard to answer. The easy one is "A Shardworld have a Focus for his own, Shard or not shard" and when a Shard arrive and Invested there....The focus is already there (with the possible/probably exception of Shardworld made by Shards).

As example: Imagine an alternate story. Where Preservation will arrive to Nalthis and he is the only shard there....Soon or later a Magic System Command Based will born on Nalthis fueled by Preservation with some Initiation Preservation related.

You may notice that also Minor Shardworld (planet without shard's influence) have a Focus. Just no Magic System can born without a great amount of POwer in their area

[soyperson]

6 hours ago, Yata said:

I think the same Stormlight is Raw Investiture and gemstone are not trasversal present in the magic systems (Surgebinding for example)....To be honest I think Gemstone are for Roshar, what Mist are for Scadrial and (maybe) Color for Nalthis

Yes and indeed this allow to it to be quite peculiar (but probably not unique concept) in the Cosmere. But you have to remember that Scadrial was created as part of Preservation's masterplan. He wanted a world where he may stock Ruin's power and people with the ability to remove it from the system (for a while)

This question is a bit hard to answer. The easy one is "A Shardworld have a Focus for his own, Shard or not shard" and when a Shard arrive and Invested there....The focus is already there (with the possible/probably exception of Shardworld made by Shards).

As example: Imagine an alternate story. Where Preservation will arrive to Nalthis and he is the only shard there....Soon or later a Magic System Command Based will born on Nalthis fueled by Preservation with some Initiation Preservation related.

You may notice that also Minor Shardworld (planet without shard's influence) have a Focus. Just no Magic System can born without a great amount of POwer in their area

Instead of Gemstone, what of Storm?

[Yata he/him]

3 hours ago, bleeder said:

Instead of Gemstone, what of Storm?

how actually "Storm" come to be in Surgebinding or Fabrial ? 

Edited October 8, 2016 by Yata

[soyperson]

49 minutes ago, Yata said:

how actually "Storm" come to be in Surgebinding or Fabrial ? 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Bond works for that, then, I suppose. 

Edited October 8, 2016 by bleeder

[Landis963 he/him]

I consider Roshar's focus to be the spren because everything magic on Roshar has to do with a spren.  Stormfather (a spren) runs the highstorms, Knights Radiant bond with spren to gain their abilities, Voidbringers require a special spren to access their abilities, fabrials require a spren in order to work correctly.  Unless you want to call a fabrial spren "bonded" to its gemstone, but still.  (I also seem to recall a WoB that Roshar as it is now essentially predates H&C's arrival.  However I can't look it up now because work and phone)  (I'll see what I can find after I get home)

[Spoolofwhool]

2 hours ago, Landis963 said:

I consider Roshar's focus to be the spren because everything magic on Roshar has to do with a spren.  Stormfather (a spren) runs the highstorms, Knights Radiant bond with spren to gain their abilities, Voidbringers require a special spren to access their abilities, fabrials require a spren in order to work correctly.  Unless you want to call a fabrial spren "bonded" to its gemstone, but still.  (I also seem to recall a WoB that Roshar as it is now essentially predates H&C's arrival.  However I can't look it up now because work and phone)  (I'll see what I can find after I get home)

Actually, according to Navani's notebook, it appears the gem with the spren inside is the fabrial, while the device using it is a machine. This is how she seems to be referring to it.

[Landis963 he/him]

5 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Actually, according to Navani's notebook, it appears the gem with the spren inside is the fabrial, while the device using it is a machine. This is how she seems to be referring to it.

I don't have either book close enough to check that, but regardless of that, it's still the spren which dictates what the fabrial can do.  

[Yata he/him]

@Landis963 actually you may have right. I put it in the list. But I feel it really wrong (I know my feel has no Cosmic weight ) because it's like to say that The Power is a Focus for the power itself.

Anyway I think we may create a new topic to argue on this matter, this question was on another matter and unless Harambe has some point unclear I think it better to stop posting here (I know I was the first to go slight off topic )