dawnshards, again

[marianmi]

Not sure this has been put forward before.

According to the ardent Kabsal, the Dawnsingers were "kindly spren sent by the Almighty" to care for mankind after being expelled from the Tranquiline Halls.

If this is remotely true, maybe Dawnsingers bonded to KR, and those KR's shards = Dawnshards?

Of course, only bondsmiths could bond Dawnsingers => bondsmiths's shards = dawnshards?

[cometaryorbit]

I don't think the Dawnshards were 'shards' in the sense of Shardblade/Shardplate, because just about the only things we know about them are that:

-Dalinar's visions say they are missing and that's a big problem;

- they were said to "bind any creature voidish or mortal" (WOK ch 36 epigraph). Of course, the same epigraph refers to "the steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides tall apiece," so who knows how reliable it is - Heralds appear to be normal human size.

If they were just Shards made from a different kind of spren, I don't know why their lack would be such a big deal - there are quite a few Shardblades/plate still around. And if their function is to "bind" that really doesn't sound like a weapon or armor.

I'm wondering if they were involved in the mysterious Bondsmith alternate plan to deal with the Voidbringers.

[marianmi]

 

@cometaryorbit I don't see anything in your comment to disprove my theory:

- spren that "bind any creature voidish or mortal": both bondsmits (mortal) and voidbringers (parshendi) can bind

- obviously, not their form as shardblades it's the important thing about them, but other properties their binded "creature" can achieve

[The One Who Connects]

13 hours ago, marianmi said:

maybe Dawnsingers bonded to KR, and those KR's shards = Dawnshards?

9 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

-Dalinar's visions say they are missing and that's a big problem;

Well, the Shardblades that the KR had are of spren, and the Nahel Bond gives the info needed to debate these points of yours.

KR bond Dawnsingers -> Dawnshards. Follow this line of logic with regards to "missing"

• If/When their KR died, they return to Spren form. Missing Spren would be somewhere that even Honor cannot find them.
• If their KR broke their oaths, they are trapped in Weapon form. Missing Weapons from the old days would be buried under centuries of crem or taken care of by people who understand their importance.

I distrust any and all mysterious groups who could be harboring the Dawnshards on principle. I have little clue on where Spren could hide from both Honor(can't find them) and Odium(because main villain)

[Krandacth]

I always assumed the Dawnsingers were the Parshendi. They would deserve the Dawn- part of the name, as they are known to pre-date humans (at least humans bonding spren) on Roshar, thanks the the Listener song (of Spren?) regarding the spren betraying them, giving their power to humans instead of them. We also know that Stormseat was shattered in the last battle against the Voidbringers a.k.a. the Listeners, in a manner directly related to Cynematics, which is also how the Dawnsingers are said to have produced the geographical templates for the 5 epoch kingdom capitals. Plus the Listeners, you know, sing

If the higher-consciousness spren used to bond with Listeners, as per their songs, might they not have had Shards? And access to Surges? If they did have Shards, and they were the Dawnsingers, would those Shards not be the Dawnshards?

And those Shards, if they still existed, would be older than the Desolations. Plenty of time to get lost, and their legends become so far removed from the truth that no-one would even know them to look at them.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Krandacth

[BeskarKomrk]

46 minutes ago, Krandacth said:

I always assumed the Dawnsingers were the Parshendi. They would deserve the Dawn- part of the name, as they are known to pre-date humans (at least humans bonding spren) on Roshar, thanks the the Listener song (of Spren?) regarding the spren betraying them, giving their power to humans instead of them. We also know that Stormseat was shattered in the last battle against the Voidbringers a.k.a. the Listeners, in a manner directly related to Cynematics, which is also how the Dawnsingers are said to have produced the geographical templates for the 5 epoch kingdom capitals. Plus the Listeners, you know, sing

If the higher-consciousness spren used to bond with Listeners, as per their songs, might they not have had Shards? And access to Surges? If they did have Shards, and they were the Dawnsingers, would those Shards not be the Dawnshards?

And those Shards, if they still existed, would be older than the Desolations. Plenty of time to get lost, and their legends become so far removed from the truth that no-one would even know them to look at them.

I dunno, I think your reasoning is solid, but I just don't think that twist would work on a meta level. We've already had one twist that the Listeners were/are the Voidbringers. I feel like it would be super underwhelming to redo the same plot.

[cometaryorbit]

On 9/26/2016 at 1:23 PM, BeskarKomrk said:

I dunno, I think your reasoning is solid, but I just don't think that twist would work on a meta level. We've already had one twist that the Listeners were/are the Voidbringers. I feel like it would be super underwhelming to redo the same plot.

Maybe... but there may be room for more twists even on the Listener/Voidbringer thing. See I don't think it's quite correct to say Listeners are Voidbringers.

Quote

'Tis said it was warm in the land far away
When Voidbringers entered our songs.
We brought them home to stay 

And then those homes became their own

-- Listener Song of Histories (WOR ch. 30 epigraph)

So the Parshendi talk about Voidbringers as something distinct from themselves... at least originally.

I think this is referring to the Odium-spren that the Parshendi met at one point... and when they bonded with them they became Voidbringers themselves.

I think the Listeners are only properly Voidbringers when bonded with a voidspren/Odium-spren. Parshmen (slaveform) or Parshendi in normal-spren forms (dullform, workform, warform, mateform, nimbleform) are not.

[And I think there will be bigger, scarier Voidbringers not of Listener-origin as the Desolation goes on...]

So Listeners bonded with some other sort of Spren could be Dawnsingers.