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Cultivationblades? Odiumblades?


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First of all, the Old Magic isn't something that you can just use. It works because the Nightwatcher does something weird to either your Cognitive or your Spiritual Aspects. Someone who has visited the Nightwatcher isn't going to be actively using Investure afterwards (at least not to fuel their Boon and Curse). It would be better to compare them to Kolos. People who had magic used on them and gained abilities, but don't actively use magic.

For Odiumblades, I think the reason is that if they are made in the same way as Honorblades, they would allow usage of Voidbinding to anyone who has the blade. This would mean that he could potentially give the enemy a new weapon. Voidbinding is better, because he can just hijack an already existing system (Surgebinding), and adapt it. This also makes sure that anyone who uses it is aligned to his cause.

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Hoo, boy... a difficult question to answer, because of some interesting assumptions you made. I'll try to give an answer, but it's a topic that I think we need a lot more information on. I, personally, have a lot of confusion over the specifics of these magic systems. Here's where I'd question some of your statements:

  • I don't think Old Magic, the gifts that Nightwatcher bestows, is a full-fledged magic system of its own. I think fabrial science fits the bill for that, and might have the 10 aspects that you're referring to.
  • Surges aren't necessarily just of Honor. Surgebinding might be of both Honor and Cultivation; some spren are of Cultivation (like Wyndle, Lift's spren). It is possible that the magic is drawn entirely from honor, while the spren can be from any Shard. (Kind of like how atium can be used in Allomancy.) I lean towards agreement with you, that Surgebinding is of Honor, but we have a lot to learn yet.
  • Spren copied the Honorblades. The original Surgebinding magic system, it appears, was limited to just the Heralds. Spren copied that - it looks like spren are the hack to the system, not the Honorblades. The other magic systems might utilize spren from the get-go.
  • We don't even know if we've seen Voidbinding at all; the Listeners bonding spren might just be something natural to them, and Voidbinding is something else entirely. No idea how it works.

So... I'm not sure we have enough info to answer that question (heck, or even ask it). But, at first glance, it appears that Honorblades give an alternate Initiation to Surgebinding than bonding spren. Without knowing what the Initiation is for Old Magic or Voidbinding, who knows how they could potentially hack their way into it. Fabrial science might be like Awakening, where there isn't a specific Initiation required. A Cultivation analogue might be a blade that can function as a universal fabrial, with any number of functions. Voidbinding... well, I have a funny feeling its Initiation isn't too pleasant, so any way around that would be nice. Who knows - if Voidbinging enslaves its users, Odium might have blades to give to those who willingly follow him a way to get in without the unpleasantness.

It's a good question to ask, but it might be going too deep for what we have seen. Two books in out of ten, and with Brandon's books discoveries about the magic systems are always doled out slowly. So, it'll be a good thing to keep an eye open for in future books.


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I'd assume the reason why Odium and Cultivation don't have blades is because they haven't found a need for them. Honor created the Honorblades for the Heralds, to empower them. Since neither Odium nor Cultivation seem to have something quite of the like, there is no need for them to create shardblades using their power.

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59 minutes ago, Lord_of_Awesome said:

Ok. I assumed that the Old Magic had a system similar to the Surges. A universal fabrial would make more sense, however. Would said fabrial use 10 different gemstones, or another 11th variety, a god gem, if you will? Which is more likely?


I hate to speculate when we know so little... (That's a dirty rotten lie.) I don't think it'd be an eleventh gemstone. Based on Navani's notes, fabrials can capture specific spren based on the cut and type of the gemstone. Spren replicate the Honorblades' bond with a Surgebinder; Cultivationblades would probably take the place of spren in fabrial science, having their power filtered through various cuts of gemstones to produce different powers. It could power any fabrial associated with a gemstone type, regardless of cut.

I need to add the disclaimer, though, that this is crazy speculation. A ton of fun with the right crew, but we haven't seen anything that would indicate Cultivation and Odium have created additional splinters of themselves the way Honor has with the Honorblades.

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27 minutes ago, PantsForSquares said:

I suspect that the Dawnshards might be Cultivation's analogue to the Honorblades, but this is mostly speculation. We haven't seen any of the Dawnshards in action, so unless we see them in a later book, we won't really know what they are.

This is clever. I completely forgot about them, mainly because they haven't had any airtime

7 minutes ago, Lord_of_Awesome said:

Wouldn't Odium need a blade for his champion? If so, there might be only one Odiumblade in the future...

Not necessarily, since Ruin's Champ used a normal axe and Elend used his... knives (I think). Granted neither of them had magical weapons, so it might happen.

I wouldn't put it past Odium's magic imbuing weapon to give all of the Voidbinding powers, as opposed to just 2 like the Honorblades. It would make for a very interesting fight

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Things don't need be parallel between the shard i think. (that doesn't mean Honor gave blades Odium and Cultivation has to as well)

I don't really see the need of Odium making an Odium-blade for somebody, after all voidbinding (or whatever happened to the Parshendi was Odium intruding into them) he practically can do it already. He doesn't care about people anyways he just wants to win so i guess everybody is expendable to him (unlike Honor who made the Honorblades just for the Heralds since they were supposed to do the desolation thing forever).

It might even be possible that Honoblades are actually kinda a combination of Cultivation/Honor (considering that some of the surges like progression might be based on cultivation)

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4 hours ago, marianmi said:

because honorblades have a lot of investiture from honor.

odium/cultivation doesn't want to give their power directly to humans.

While this is true, they have magic systems now. This means that the peoples of Roshar already have access to their powers (maybe not as easily as Honor's), but they can. Also in the context of the champion's fight, R&P pushed their mist/dark-mist energy in to Elend and Marsh.

Warning: Possible Memory Errors here :) On Scadrial, the metals draw power from Preservation, and then that power goes back to Preservation once it has been used. Assuming Odium has the Realmatic Knowledge to understand that, he could fuel his champion with (dark-stormlight B)) so they wouldn't run out while battling.

While you make a good point about the energy expended by creating  an Honorblade, I just feel like Odium's champ would definitely need something just as powerful so that he/she can parry the Honorblade/Sprenblade.

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