Lift, and why we NEED to give her a spike or four.

[Djarskublar]

I have always been fascinated by the sheer potential of Lift. I'm salivating with excitement just by remembering that she gets a short in the collection. I'm not a creep though, trust me.

I have said in the past that we should spike her, and the obvious choice of spikes would be allomantic steel. If we gave her the power of pseudo-flight, that would be epic. In the preview chapter for her short, she slides down a hill with her friction reduction, and since she wasn't going fast enough for her taste, she removed friction with the air too, confirming my suspicion that this was possible. A Coinshot with no air resistance would be kinda ridiculous.

On that note, the real reason for this post. Question: if we also gave her the two bendalloy spikes necessary to compound food, could she use that to fuel her food-to-stormlight power? If so, that is beyond amazing, that is godlike. That is three spikes, which IIRC Suit says is the limit before Harmony can influence you (for a human, since apparently when you shoot a third spike into your kandra wife, that's enough). If you don't mind one more, giving her a another steel spike to give her steel compounding would also be really cool.

If you put in all four, and it works properly, you have a person with superspeed and flight with effectively no terminal velocity who is even better at healing than a bloodmaker because she can make as much Stormlight as she darn well pleases. Never mind her regeneration surge. Or the fact that she can have a shardblade from her spren. Or the boosts to physical capability granted by that much Stormlight. Or speed bubbles. She could attain escape velocity without any difficulty. I wig out every time I consider this.

The only real factor is a question like what Khriss asked Wax at the party. What exactly does Bendalloy store, and is that the same thing Lift is converting? She converts food she has eaten (interestingly, this is a lot like allomancy) or her fat stores (a lot like feruchemy). I assume this means calories, which is what Bendalloy stores according to the Bands ars arcanum. Any rejections of the assumed premises of a spiked person even being able to compound, or a refutation of the Bendalloy hack, while disappointing, would be interesting.

All right Brandon, we had better see some spikes in her future, or I will be furious over the wasted potential. I can't believe that Nahz, Khriss, and Hoid even let Darkness try to kill her (I realize how stupid that actually is on multiple levels, but still). She is too interesting as a research subject. Even if the bendalloy wouldn't hack right, a single steel spike or two would definitely work and still be truly incredible. With bendalloy hacks, I could see her creating enough stormlight to do some ascend-y type things. That would use a lot of Bendalloy though. She needs to get rich quick.

[Oversleep]

Actually, if we could give Lift only one spike, a much better choice than Allomantic steel is Feruchemical steel. I mean, after she covers herself with Abrasion, she will continue to move as long as she has Stormlight. The only thing that counts is the initial speed and with Feruchemical steel that can be ridiculously high.

[Spoolofwhool]

We know that hemalurgically-gained powers can be used to compound, else Marsh wouldn't still be alive after 300 years. Personally I think just giving her twin bendalloy abilities would be enough since that would mean that with unlimited bendalloy she could produce unlimited stormlight, and basically be immortal. I imagine that with unlimited stormlight a surgebinder would be on the order of a twinborn gold with immortality regeneration. 

 

[Djarskublar]

Well Sleep, that isn't strictly true. First off, coinshots can fight longer because they have a better power source. And what you suggest doesn't allow for ANY turning. She can't change her vectors at all. That speed boost would be sweet, but it basically just shoves her into the closest wall. It she tapped it in small bursts that would be good, but she would still suffer from being unable to make course corrections without slowing down again. Plus it would be difficult for her to get airborne. Coinshot would be better. Without friction, they can still get solid acceleration with a good flare, but she can nudge herself around better.

Which single spike would be best is beside the point anyway. This was supposed to be about the Bendalloy epicness that may be possible.

Thanks, Spool, for the Marsh reminder. She would still age though, so no true immortality . I think a big burst of stormlight production would be even better than a gold compounder. Gold is healing only, and natural healing at that. Stormlight heals better when it comes to things like getting chopped in half, and a huge burst like that would also have other effects. For example, she would glow like a magnesium flare and blind opponents. Plus the strength and speed boost.

While we are at it, we should also make her a rioter so that while passively creating enough stormlight to glow, she can also flare awe in others. Then she really would be a goddess!

Does anyone disagree that she would be able to do this Bendalloy hack? Its imlications if it would work are somewhat staggering.

[Cartographer7]

Side Question: How do we know what Bendalloy Spikes do? I can't find it on the Copper mond or in a WoB.

[Djarskublar]

6 minutes ago, Cartographer7 said:

Side Question: How do we know what Bendalloy Spikes do? I can't find it on the Copper mond or in a WoB.

From Bands of Mourning Ars Arcanum:

Bendalloy: (stuff about mistings, of which Wayne is one. Basically, bendalloy is for speed bubbles)... Subsumer Ferrings can store nutrition and calories in a bendalloy metalmind; they can eat large amounts of food during active storage without feeling full or gaining weight, and then can go without the need to eat while tapping the metalmind. A separate bendalloy metalmind can be used to similarly regulate fluids intake.

I take this to mean that compounding this would equal eating lots of food, so Lift should be able to convert the compounded storage to stormlight.

[Argel]

5 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

we had better see some spikes in her future

There's no "awesomeness" in killing people (spiking them) for power. 

[Djarskublar]

6 minutes ago, Argel said:

There's no "awesomeness" in killing people (spiking them) for power. 

So... Don't tell her. Spike the person into a vial of blood. That way there isn't deterioration over time. Say that the spike will make her more awesome and she'll be all over it. Then she can stay pure and awesome. I'll get my hands dirty instead. Besides, it is theoretically possible to spike someone without killing them. It just hurts a lot.

For the creation of a virtual deity, it's worth it. Especially with Roshar being what it is. Cultivation can just be like "behave! Or I'll sic my immortal pet that flies so fast it escapes orbit if it isn't careful on you!" She seriously might be able to do some funky stuff with that much stormlight. Like Vin taking in the mists and ascending funky. Tenth heightening funky (actually it goes to eleven XD). Maybe she could repair shards or resurrect the dead with her surges (drawing a blank on the name of the healing one... Restoration maybe?). Dumping a huge load of healing into a person could maybe call their three aspects back together if done quickly enough i.e. before the spirit moves on.

Talking about escape velocity put a funny thought in my head. She can accelerate infinitely without friction. Put Lift in a particle accelerator-ish thing. Lots of anchors in a circle so she can push off the sides and turn/accelerate, and some on the ground so she can stay airborne. She might need mental speed just to handle that though... And really powerful pushing to not splat into the sides of it. She isn't a lurcher in this scenario, so Vin's horseshoe trick won't work as well for her.

Lift is also the only practical wielder of Nightblood in this case. She can fuel it as long as she has Bendalloy. Wow.

[Spoolofwhool]

6 hours ago, Cartographer7 said:

Side Question: How do we know what Bendalloy Spikes do? I can't find it on the Copper mond or in a WoB.

We're not talking about bendalloy hemalurgical spikes, we're talking about gifting allomantic and feruchemical bendalloy abilities to Lift using a gold and an atium, or whichever metal steals allomantic temporal powers, spikes.

[What's a Seawolf?]

I LOVE this idea.

This is also why I hope Brandon doesn't take the future 'interconnected' Cosmere novels TOO seriously.

After all, we're going to have a plethora of fantastic and mind bending stories spanning so many different worlds and themes and storylines, all self-sufficient despite the hints of the greater Cosmere.

So, when it comes time for Cosmere-Avengers, why NOT have some crazy amounts of fun such as this Lift theory?  So what if it maybe lessens slightly the overall impact of the original story the characters are from.  (Disclaimer:  I REALLY want a few, or more than a few, specific Mistborn characters back-to heck with 'that can't happen because they moved beyond'-when it comes time for the Cosmere Avengers.)  Remember, the Stormlight Archive, Mistborn etc all can exist by themselves.  The Cosmere books, should there be any, are really just bonuses.  So here's to hoping Brandon has fun with them, and we can have this Uber Lift team up with Vin, Elend, Kell, Dockson, Vasher and the rest.

[PallonianFire]

2 hours ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

Remember, the Stormlight Archive, Mistborn etc all can exist by themselves.  The Cosmere books, should there be any, are really just bonuses.

They're all "Cosmere books," and they already don't exist by themselves. Bringing back Vin/Elend/Dockson is going into the realm of fanfiction. (Kelsier and Vasher are different stories, of course, because they're canonically not gone.)

[What's a Seawolf?]

1 hour ago, PallonianFire said:

They're all "Cosmere books," and they already don't exist by themselves. Bringing back Vin/Elend/Dockson is going into the realm of fanfiction. (Kelsier and Vasher are different stories, of course, because they're canonically not gone.)

When I mean 'Cosmere' books, I mean Avengers style team ups from different series.  My understanding is the Brandon once said each series will be stand alone, not needing anything else to be read to understand, but with behind the scenes Cosmere happenings and tidbits.

What I would like to see, is that when the inevitable series team up happens, is that some of the established 'rules' get broken (or rather, shown that our understanding of them is wrong) to allow for some rather off the wall things. 

I've seen a good amount of people here disagree with that sentiment, but for me it's all in good fun.  Let the individual series contain the proper sendoff's, deaths etc for the characters.  Let Cosmere-Avengers be Uber Lift, Vin, Wayne and Lightsong (and I guess Vasher, for the grumpiness) up against some comically strong arch-villain.

[PallonianFire]

Yeah, count me in their number. I'd prefer consistency with in-universe rules and originality with plot and character. No need to recycle main characters (especially when most of them would be randomly resurrected and have no clue about the cosmere meta story and the plots going on).

[Radiant Returned]

All the books are canonical and follow a timeline. So if a character has died already they're not going to have a place in the final Mistborn trilogy or Dragonsteel books. Those are chronologically still at least hundreds of years from the second Stormlight Archive cycle. So even the characters that haven't died in books, a lot of them will have died from old age or whatever off screen by the time of the final Cosmere wrap-up books. 

The individual series are awesome and can be enjoyed standalone. But the Cosmere is a story spanning thousands of years. You can go crazy with Avengers-style mashups in fan fiction, but it's not going to happen in real novels (with the exception of Worldhoppers perhaps). To me, characters are only real and relatable if they are mortal, if they have a real life that like ours could potentially end at any time. I loved Vin, but I'm glad she had a beginning and ending to her story. Same with people like Lightsong and (probably) Raoden. 

If it makes you feel better, people like Kelsier, Vasher, and Galladon don't seem like they're gonna die anytime soon, and very feasibly could last all the way into the last series. 

[PallonianFire]

Well, Dragonsteel is thousands of years before Stormlight. It's the origin story.

35 minutes ago, Radiant Returned said:

The individual series are awesome and can be enjoyed standalone. But the Cosmere is a story spanning thousands of years. You can go crazy with Avengers-style mashups in fan fiction, but it's not going to happen in real novels (with the exception of Worldhoppers perhaps). To me, characters are only real and relatable if they are mortal, if they have a real life that like ours could potentially end at any time. I loved Vin, but I'm glad she had a beginning and ending to her story. Same with people like Lightsong and (probably) Raoden. 

I feel exactly the same.

[Argel]

I just read a recent WoB about his biggest concern writing about the Cosmere and it was that the SA has to stand on it's own, and his biggest concern is he will let too much other Cosmere stuff slips in. He also mentioned he was not as worried about that for Mistborn. So there is no way Brandon is going to slip in hemalurgy to that scale. Not that it's anything Brandon would write anyway -- it's too dark for him. Steelheart spoilers: 

Spoiler

He was very uncomfortable when someone asked him about the resulting starvation that would occur due to an even in Steelheart.

So it's a fun fanfic/fandom idea, but that's as far as  it will go. Sorry.    

(Paraphrasing these WoBs, of course).

Edited August 17, 2016 by Argel

[Djarskublar]

Ehhh... I know it's a very long shot for it to happen. Maybe Hoid will get a hold of her and steal the ability with Hemalurgy. Nightblood already showed up. That's probably as far as major crossover is going to go. I agree with basically everything you guys have said, but I can still dream.

The cosmeric implications are big just in that it is possible. It means you can convert the power of Preservation (the compounding) into the power of Honor, or wherever the stormlight comes from (not sure on where it comes from... But it is Shardic right?). It is a pretty roundabout hack, but it should work. That means it is possible to do other conversions with the right ability set. Stormlight or the Dor to Breaths. Nuff said. Imagine a person who could exhale Stormlight into the shape of Aons and have it produce the effect. Wow.

[Spoolofwhool]

56 minutes ago, Djarskublar said:

Ehhh... I know it's a very long shot for it to happen. Maybe Hoid will get a hold of her and steal the ability with Hemalurgy. Nightblood already showed up. That's probably as far as major crossover is going to go. I agree with basically everything you guys have said, but I can still dream.

The cosmeric implications are big just in that it is possible. It means you can convert the power of Preservation (the compounding) into the power of Honor, or wherever the stormlight comes from (not sure on where it comes from... But it is Shardic right?). It is a pretty roundabout hack, but it should work. That means it is possible to do other conversions with the right ability set. Stormlight or the Dor to Breaths. Nuff said. Imagine a person who could exhale Stormlight into the shape of Aons and have it produce the effect. Wow.

First of all, I doubt that Hoid is that interested in stealing abilities with hemalurgy. His MO seems more to gain access to abilities by more natural and permanent methods. 

Secondly, it's not exactly converting the power of Preservation into the power of Honor, at least not directly. What's actually happening is that the power of Preservation is being used to create calories which she then burns, similar to metals in allomancy, to create a gate to tap on the power Honor. Yes, the net result is power of Preservation is becoming the power of Honor, but she isn't actually converting the powers from one to the other, she would just be taking advantage of intermediary states she can access. Just a nitpick though.

Overall, you have to take into account that every shard's power is essentially the same, just with very slight variation, so using one for the other isn't really that game-breaking in my opinion. It's like the difference between stirring a chemical reaction or heating it to make it go faster, you're just adding energy to it in either case. While other cross-usages will probably occur, I don't think they'll be as straight out there as directly using stormlight to fuel aons, or using the Dor to awaken. Main point probably being that each of those conversions are across different methods of fueling the manifestation of investiture. Stormlight for awakening is probably the most viable since breath and stormlight are both internal power.

[Ciridae]

Hello everyone kinda new here, been lurking for a bit though. 

Does anybody have a link to the preview chapter? Been chomping at the bit for more of Lift ever since the interlude. Thanks!

[Radiant Returned]

3 hours ago, Ciridae said:

Hello everyone kinda new here, been lurking for a bit though. 

Does anybody have a link to the preview chapter? Been chomping at the bit for more of Lift ever since the interlude. Thanks!

The Lift preview-chapter was only included in the quarterly newsletter from Sanderson's site, it's not available online anywhere I could find. 

[Djarskublar]

Hmmm. I guess my examples of cross over magic weren't clear enough.

Thank you for detailing how the mechanics of her converting the compounding over to stormlight would work detail wise.

So for my examples of Light or Dor into Breath, I wasn't meaning that you would use light to fuel awakening, I meant converting Stormlight into Breaths you hold onto to attain heightenings. That would be too cool. Also, I meant exhaling the light into the form of an Aon, instead of drawing it. Not that you you use Light's investiture rather than the Dor. Just shifting the form of investiture, not effects. Attaining the tenth heightening just by drawing a bunch of really fat Aons sounds pretty great to me! Awakening pales in power compared to other systems (for towels, not lifeless), but heightenings are sweet. Also, drawing an Aon to make a lifeless servant is great.

[thegatorgirl00]

5 hours ago, Ciridae said:

Hello everyone kinda new here, been lurking for a bit though. 

Does anybody have a link to the preview chapter? Been chomping at the bit for more of Lift ever since the interlude. Thanks!

If you sign up for the newsletter, you should get sent the most recent one with the preview chapter. 

[Spoolofwhool]

4 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

Hmmm. I guess my examples of cross over magic weren't clear enough.

Thank you for detailing how the mechanics of her converting the compounding over to stormlight would work detail wise.

So for my examples of Light or Dor into Breath, I wasn't meaning that you would use light to fuel awakening, I meant converting Stormlight into Breaths you hold onto to attain heightenings. That would be too cool. Also, I meant exhaling the light into the form of an Aon, instead of drawing it. Not that you you use Light's investiture rather than the Dor. Just shifting the form of investiture, not effects. Attaining the tenth heightening just by drawing a bunch of really fat Aons sounds pretty great to me! Awakening pales in power compared to other systems (for towels, not lifeless), but heightenings are sweet. Also, drawing an Aon to make a lifeless servant is great.

I see. Honestly, in my opinion, most of what you're suggesting doesn't seem that viable based on current mechanics. I suppose that future mechanics could appear which make it possible, but they seem so random, there wouldn't any reason why they would. Unless you have some suggestions as to how these would occur, I think it would be best to shelve this line of conversation for another time or topic and stay on track with spiking Lift.

[Djarskublar]

Of course I agree. Right now, spiking Lift is the only method available that I know of to power one system via another. Fueling Nightblood with stormlight doesn't count. Sorry Szeth. You may get some other hacks with Allomancy and/or Lerasium. Hemalurgy is really the only way to get cool stuff done right now though.

[asterion137]

what about nicrosil feruchemy?