theory Distorted Intents

[Sam Script he/him]

(The following are based on the possibility if Intents were not blank at first when Shattering. Here we go)

In the Second Letter, we can see

Quote

He(Rayse) bears the weight of God’s own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context.

It could be interpreted as that Rayse "purified" the initial Intent of his Shard, and somehow distort it into merely hatred, thus become Odium. Most would agree that Vessels' mind would be affected by the Intent. What if, vice versa, the Vessels can change Intents to some extent?

And I believe there are some friends had the same following question: Why Honor and Ruin, and such, are parts of the Force of Creation?

If the Vessels are truly able to change the Intents, then the problem could be easily solved.

In one WoB we know that Ruin actually means "pursuing the entropy maximum in the universe". Entropy is related to a progression that energy or information goes from regular to irregular and chaos, and finally the balance of energy. It's an inevitable process of the nature. And most importantly, it's neutral. Maybe Ruin is just kinda easy interpretation. The original Intent is Entropy.

Same,

Quote

Honor seeks to uphold oaths and agreements, and to make things binding.

So "Honor" might be an added context Tanavast gave, the original Intent was Bond. Dominion could originally mean Occupancy, and so on.

Conclusion: if the Intents were designed when Shattering happened, then the original Intents might be neutral.

Does that make sense? Surely there might get some flaws or my ignorance. Show me some new perspectives, thx:)

[Stormgate he/him]

The 16 Intents were all part of Adonalsium, and when they were separated, Odium was separated from the other things that kept it in check and context.

[Radiant Returned he/him]

Yeah I like the theory, it's very well thought out, but I think it just means that the intent isn't given context, like Stormgate said. Like if you had all your different aspects of your personality shattered and separated, and only your hatred for things given back, you wouldn't have the capability of hating certain things, you'd hate pretty much everything, and you wouldn't have the other emotions to keep that hatred in check or contained. It would dominate your mind until eventually that's all you are. 

[CaptainRyan he/him]

On 7/30/2016 at 7:38 AM, Stormgate said:

The 16 Intents were all part of Adonalsium

Is there a WoB on this? I had a thread awhile back discussing Adonalsium, the Shattering etc. and I could not find anything definitely saying that Adonalsium was governed by the Intents - many people on this site seem to be of the opinion that the Intents were created at the time of the Shattering.

 

Also, @Sam Script here is some info that helped me answer a similar question:

Shards affect you over time but your mind will not leave a permanent effect on the Shard. A holder's personality, however, does get to filter the Shard's intent, so to speak. However, if that holder no longer held that Shard, the Shard will not continue to be filtered by that person.

Unfortunately I do not have the direct WoB of where I got this from. I keep a google doc of all the questions I would like to ask Sanderson and, if I find a WoB that answers it, I mark it as answered and put down the answer. I really should start adding a link to the WoB. 

[Stormgate he/him]

It is generally understood that the 16 Intents represent 16 portions of Adonalsium's personality.

[CaptainRyan he/him]

5 minutes ago, Stormgate said:

It is generally understood that the 16 Intents represent 16 portions of Adonalsium's personality.

I don't think that is supported by the evidence we have. I think it is one possible explanation, and one that I agree with, but other theories exist that fit the given evidence. E.g. There is a WoB saying that Adonalsium could have Shattered into different Intents and some people theorize this means that if different Vessels had been present then different Intents would have formed. Other people have speculated that the Intents were created as reflections of the original Sixteen and were not actually part of Adonalsium originally. 

Basically, I, personally, agree with what you are saying but I think it is important to highlight when we are guessing and when we have solid facts.

[Argel he/him]

I wonder if we are getting caught up in semantics here. If all the possible intents were part of Adonalsium then the 16 we ended up with could be based on the 16 individuals. Then you are both right. 

[Yata he/him]

I have yet the idea about Adonalsium as made by hundreads of intents (little intents) and when the Vessels killed and shattered him. Adonalsium broke in 16 part and every little intent is struck in one of the 16 subsets. The whole contributions of all the intents made the Shard's Intent.

Of course if the little intents was divided differently, the Intent would be different. Of course the Vessels did something to control the SHattering, Adonalsium broke in 16 pieces after all..but maybe they simply figure how the Shattering would end and recluit the right number of people.

[CaptainRyan he/him]

14 hours ago, Argel said:

I wonder if we are getting caught up in semantics here. If all the possible intents were part of Adonalsium then the 16 we ended up with could be based on the 16 individuals. Then you are both right.

The big difference, to me, is that some people (me) believe that Adonalsium itself was governed by either a mixing of all of the Intents or Adonalsium had its own single Intent or Adonalsium had a bunch of tiny intents that later formed the Intents during the Shattering.

In a different camp are people who believe that Adonalsium was not governed by an Intent, a mixing of Intents, or anything else to do with Intents and, therefore, had no Intent and the Intents came about as the result of the Shattering.

That is the center of some of the debate. Some claim the Intents were created during the Shattering, either by the event itself or perhaps by using mortal Vessels for the Shards whereas others, like me, believe the Intents existed prior to the Shattering in some form.

 

[Argel he/him]

Well, Hoid's question to Dalinar seems to suggest the intents were there. 

Another possibility -- since Frost believes Adonalsium knew what was coming is that he created or chose the 16 intents that we ended up with.

[goody153]

Seems to me that intent depends on who holds the shard and how they view the certain virtue/intent. Like if somebody else probably held Ruin it'll probably be interpreted differently not just like "helping everybody by ending everybody" as how it seems like Ati sees it which fits him as a kind man since he still thinks he's doing everybody a favor.

[CaptainRyan he/him]

4 hours ago, goody153 said:

Seems to me that intent depends on who holds the shard and how they view the certain virtue/intent. Like if somebody else probably held Ruin it'll probably be interpreted differently not just like "helping everybody by ending everybody" as how it seems like Ati sees it which fits him as a kind man since he still thinks he's doing everybody a favor.

Brandon has said that a Vessel does, to a certain extent, filter the Intent. The Intent, however, also slowly and inexorably erodes the Vessel away and the "pure" Intent shines through. I think no matter who held Ruin the end result would have been the same; it just might have taken more time or manifested in a slightly different way.

Edited August 3, 2016 by CaptainRyan

[Pathfinder]

I always personally interpreted it as taking a normal person, and then fracturing their psyche into multiple personalities. Originally a fully functioning human being capable of anger, love, compassion, jealousy, etc. When the event fractured their psyche into multiple personalities, there is a personality that is distrustful and easily enraged, a hedonistic personality, a innocent child personality, and so on. That does not mean when the psyche was whole, there was all those individual personalities in the mind singing kumbaya till they got shattered apart. Just means that certain normal aspects to that person, became individualized, and them amplified when they were separated. Now I do not have specific evidence to back this interpretation up, so I am not saying this to say anyone is wrong and I am right. Just that that is how I always read the info regarding Adonalsium. I could be completely and utterly off base, but it rings true for me. 

[goody153]

33 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

Brandon has said that a Vessel does, to a certain extent, filter the Intent. The Intent, however, also slowly and inexorably erodes the Vessel away and the "pure" Intent shines through. I think no matter who held Ruin the end result would have been the same; it just might have taken more time or manifested in a slightly different way.

Well the intent will obviously prevail but i was thinking more of a different way in viewing entrophy or maybe change as Ruin instead of how Ati viewed it.

[Landis963 he/him]

Well, this discussion certainly seems Intents.