Hoid Theory 16729438 (Acronym, and height)

[Aliroz-The-Confused]

Spoilers for original Mistborn trilogy, Elantris, Warbreaker, Stormlight Archive, Word of Brandon.

So, we know that there are at least two Hoids/Hoiden/Hoidypodes/Hoidypeople/Hoides, Hoid the Elder, who is not Wit, and Hoid the Younger, who is Wit.

So, what if Hoid is an acronym for Head Of Information Department?  In Mistborn, Hoid is an informant, one who deals in information.  In Warbreaker, Hoid is a storyteller, one who deals in information.  In Well of Ascension, Hoid leads the Terris refuges after the loss of their Keepers, thus taking the place of those who dealt in information.

In Elantris, a Hoid is a beggar covered in bandages, and accompanied by a younger beggar.

In Mistborn: The Final Empire, a Hoid is Kelsier's Informant.  This Hoid is implied to be short (he is first seen sitting in a doorway, but then he "climbed to his feet-though that didn't make him much taller").  He is also, in the next sentence, called "the scrawny bald man".  This is, in my opinion, Hoid the Elder, and not Wit.  Wit is described as "thin" and "tall".  Considering how Vasher was only slightly taller than usual at the rescue of Nanrovah's daughter, and that no change of height was mentioned in any of Denth's disguises or his return to his true form at death, and given that lightweaving is essentially hologram-making, it seems doubtful that one can change one's height via illusion or disguise in the Cosmere (though, perhaps with lightweaving, you could make the top part of you invisible and project an image of a short person below that...).  This Hoid is assumed by Kelsier to be Skaa, while the Hoid of Well of Ascension passes for Terris.

In Warbreaker, Hoid is the white-haired, bearded one recognizable as Wit, but in previous sanderson works he seems to be described differently.

Now, we know from Word of Brandon that Wit-Hoid is in every Cosmere book.  Assuming he is somewhere in The Final Empire, and that he is the younger beggar in Elantris, this Hoid the Younger can be the Terris-looking leader of the refuges, and can be every Hoid after that.

So, I distinguish the short, bald, skaa-looking Hoid from the early Cosmere from the tall, white-haired and bearded, terris-looking Hoid of the later Cosmere.

 

Interestingly, this places the death of the original Head Of Information Department at the attack on Terris by the Inquisitors, the loss of the Keepers (the Information Department, essentially).  It seems fitting for Hoid the Elder, informant, to die with the greatest group of information-gatherers, the end of an era.  This leaves Wit to take up the mantle and lead the survivors, inheriting the title of his old master, thus, becoming Hoid.

 

Thoughts?  (This is my first theory)

Edited June 23, 2016 by Aliroz-The-Confused
Spelling errors.

[Jondesu]

I think it's been confirmed there's only one Hoid (at present), not counting certain unpublished works.

jW

[Aliroz-The-Confused]

I don't see how that contradicts any of my theory.  There's only one Hoid at a time, and Wit doesn't become Hoid until the original Hoid dies.  

 

I mean, Wit says that Hoid was "The name of one I should have loved", and The Reply from Words of Radiance asks if Wit is going by the name of his old master again.  There was an original Hoid who was not Wit, who must have died sometime, and I think that the Attack on Terris is a logical place for the Master to die.  It fits so well with the older members of Kelsier's crew sending the younger ones to live while they themselves stay and die.

And, considering that the attack happened because The Final Empire fell, it would explain why Wit-Hoid and Kelsier do not get along as per Word of Brandon.

[Jondesu]

I meant that the Hoids we've seen have all been the same person. Elantris to Scadrial to Roshar: one person. It's not been stated in that way exactly because that isn't the way it's been asked, but it's basically confirmed by the way many WoBs speak of Hoid.

Not saying I couldn't be wrong, but I was pretty sure we knew that much.

jW

[Sam Script]

Yes there are two Hoids. But the one we are discussing and appeared in the books so far is just ONE SINGLE PERSON.

The Hoid we know was originally named Midius, and Hoid was his mentor's name. Then Midius used the name Hoid in all the stories we've seen so far. Since Elantris till now, just ONE Hoid. The story of original Hoid and Midius was on Yolen, in which we haven't involved.

Technically, when we sharders are talking about "Hoid", we mean the original person Midius, not his mentor.

Anyway there are two people named Hoid. But not the condition as you thought. It's just fine to focus on the Hoid we know so far, as for the original one, we'll have more information in Dragonsteel Prequels.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Sam Script
Postscript

[Argel]

We have WoB that confirms that the letter in TWoK is from Hoid to Frost and in WoR, Frost replies back to Hoid. Given the contents of those letters, it's clear both existed before the shattering. And there are many other WoBs that contradict your theory. It's an interesting idea, but unfortunately not correct.

It does highlight that Hoid must be doing something to alter his appearance, but he is a Yolish Lightweaver and has had considerable time to hone his talents (presumably he was lightweaving before the shattering). Considering what Shallan was able to do as just a novice.... He could also be using some other form of magic to alter his appearance (assuming its not just an actor's trick).

Edited June 24, 2016 by Argel

[Aliroz-The-Confused]

Hmm.

 

Darn, because Hoid's conversation with Elend felt really raw to me.  Much more invested in events than his air of aloof, almost untouchable jadedness in other works would seem to imply.

 

if the Keepers are the Information Department (or a part of it), then the loss of that is still a major blow to Hoid, and would explain why he asks after Tindwyl specifically, and perks up so much when she is confirmed to be alive.  As one who deals in information, and, assuming that the Copperminds of the dead keepers were lost, Hoid lost one of his major resources.  We know that Hoid had also failed to find the Well of Ascension and the Lerasium at this point.  Surely, if he meant to get to Luthadel as fast as possible, he wouldn't take a thousand refuges with him, right?

 

Or, he could just be a really good actor, but it'd be more compelling for Hoid to be legitimately dismayed, and would tie Copperminds as a usage of information storage into the greater Cosmere.

 

I don't know, but I do feel that Hoid seems... different, somehow, before and after the attack on Terris, and I think we should look into that more than we have.

[CaptainRyan]

2 minutes ago, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

 We know that Hoid had also failed to find the Well of Ascension and the Lerasium at this point.  Surely, if he meant to get to Luthadel as fast as possible, he wouldn't take a thousand refuges with him, right?

Quick correction: This was changed with the release of Mistborn: Secret History. Hoid used the Well of Ascension to arrive on Scadrial and obtained Lerasium right after getting there. He then left Luthadel and headed off to the Terris Dominance. So, by the scene where is leading the refugees to Luthadel, he already has the bead of Lerasium. I don't know if this will change your opinion of what Hoid was doing/how he was acting but the new canon is that Hoid was busy doing Hoid-things in Terris, he was not looking for the Well nor for Lerasium.

[Sam Script]

1 hour ago, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

 I don't know, but I do feel that Hoid seems... different, somehow, before and after the attack on Terris, and I think we should look into that more than we have.

I maybe understand why you said this, but it's just the matter of identity.

In Elantris, he's beggar directed by Sarene, therefore it's not a proper situation to flirt ppl as when he's Wit.

In FE, similar state. He pretended to be skaa so it was not a time for him to be wordsmith things.

In WoA, refugee leader. Not fit to show his cleverness as well.

In HoA, however, his acts looked pretty similar to the state of Wit. There's no need to conceal his... Wit-style at this time.

And then Nalthis and Roshar, the story-telling Hoid might be no problem to be the same one in your opinion.

And don't forget there's Secret History beating Kelsier scene as well, pretty "Hoid" as he's at Roshar.

Conclusion. We actually had little scenes to figure out Hoid's personality in Mistborn trilogy and Elantris, most of these scenes are just not fine for him to be Wit. It's also improper to judge his personality by these few words. Rather than Roshar and Nalthis, where he had much more plots for us to know him.

 

Edited June 23, 2016 by Sam Script
Postscript