theory The Origin of the Dor

[VirtuousTraveller]

4 hours ago, Argent said:

I don't think we know that.

Shhh...

Seriously though, this entire premise was built on this idea of a relationship existing between Aona and Skai, which I do believe existed.  While I got an RAFO specifically when I asked Brandon if there was a romantic relationship between these two Vessels, he went on to say that shards went together after the shattering because of things like relationships or business associations their Vessels once had (or continue to have).  Combined with the Biblical symbolism I read into the ideas of Dominion and Devotion, it seems like a reasonable conclusion, but alas, you are correct.  This is but conjecture at this point.

What I don't think is conjecture is that the shards were combined into one shardic power, Unity, which expressed itself on Sel as the Dor.  I propose that Odium splintered this, rather than splintering two separate shards.

[Yata he/him]

On 14/12/2016 at 8:46 PM, VirtuousTraveller said:

What I don't think is conjecture is that the shards were combined into one shardic power, Unity, which expressed itself on Sel as the Dor.  I propose that Odium splintered this, rather than splintering two separate shards.

Of course this mean that Odium overcome something with quite twice his power...I don't say that is impossible, but if he as fear of Harmony and He need thousands of years to Splinter Honor. I don't think it's really a "uuuh the Dor, let's kill it"

[VirtuousTraveller]

1 hour ago, Yata said:

Of course this mean that Odium overcome something with quite twice his power...I don't say that is impossible, but if he as fear of Harmony and He need thousands of years to Splinter Honor. I don't think it's really a "uuuh the Dor, let's kill it"

I think the difference is that I suggest two Vessels were holding their singular combined power, which may have made it easier to splinter.  Brandon just talks about the Dor as something singular and IIRC, I just saw a WoB that said the Dor is the only other "combined shard" like Harmony in the cosmere, though he said it wasn't complete (likely because this Dor shard had been shattered).

As another interesting aside, the combined power of Devotion and Dominion on Sel is described as violent, unstable, and dangerous.  Ettmetal, the metal of Harmony (the combined power of Preservation and Ruin) also has incredibly destructive properties.  I wonder if there's something inherently dangerous and/or risky about combining shards that we don't know yet.  Harmony is held by one of the most intelligent, perceptive, and reasonable beings we've seen in the cosmere, yet his metal is unstable.  Perhaps Aona and Skai found the same problem with the Dor - incredible power, but unstable.

[Yata he/him]

You know, the idea of a Shard (double but as a single "being") held by more than a Vessels is something really really speculative....In my own mind it is impossible, but of course I have no proofs...You may have so much Investiture to Ascend, but if someone else is the "owner" of that Investiture you can't reclame the godhood status for too much (as you can't remain godly with the Well of Ascension also if you try to keep the power without use it)

The power of D&D is violent, unstable and dangerous compressed together in the Cognitive Realm. In the Spiritual nothing like that would happen probably, like none of the other Shards interact directly with each other in the Spiritual Realm

[VirtuousTraveller]

3 hours ago, Yata said:

You know, the idea of a Shard (double but as a single "being") held by more than a Vessels is something really really speculative....

Again, that's the beauty of the metaphor I see in the Biblical allusion to man and woman being united together as one, "the two become one flesh" as the Bible says in several places.  Two physical beings do not physically merge into one being, and yet a relationship is greater than the sum of its parts.  This third being of a relationship, the Unity two people create together, is how I believe Dominion and Devotion became the Dor.

What of your theory @Yata?  Where does it stand in light of the new information we've since learned from AU and WoBs?

[Yata he/him]

14 hours ago, VirtuousTraveller said:

What of your theory @Yata?  Where does it stand in light of the new information we've since learned from AU and WoBs?

You may find it strange, but I think the AU and new WoBs add nothing to our Knowledge on the topic. Sure, now we have a in-world source for something we only speculated before. But we have almost no doubt with the main "new informations" before the AU was released. The Dor in the Cognitive, The CR's limits that press the Investiture together and made the whole place hyper satured and dangerous.

Probably the only true new information is about the reason Splintered Shards are in the CR (but it's not really relevant to this topic), I for example until the recent WoBs believed that the Splintering of a Shard was performed pushing the Shard in the CR from the Spiritual and made the Realmatic Pressure splinter the power...now I know it's false.

 

But about nothing we may use speculate about the Dor's birth....Honestly, I think you may be right (it's not impossible) but you had to add many exceptions and speculations to make it work. Without a single clue, I prefer an explaination that requites less out-of-canon ideas.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Yata

[Exalted]

I would disagree on the "combining Shardic magic is dangerous/unstable" part, in part because of Surgebinding, which I understand to be of both Honor and Cultivation (although I've seen references of it being of Honor only, so I'm not really sure of this). Also, there's Feruchemy, which is of both Preservation and Ruin, and it's arguably the most stable of the Scadrian magics (built-in failsafes, no net power loss). I agree, however, that the Dor is both unstable and dangerous, but I think that's more due to the fact that it's situated in the Cognitive realm than the fact that it's of two Shards.

And as funny side note: whenever I read "D&D" while scrolling through this thread, my brain defaulted to "Dungeons & Dragons", and I had to remind myself that the topic of discussion was not the Shards of Adonalsium playing TTRPGs. 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

19 hours ago, miner3203 said:

And as funny side note: whenever I read "D&D" while scrolling through this thread, my brain defaulted to "Dungeons & Dragons", and I had to remind myself that the topic of discussion was not the Shards of Adonalsium playing TTRPGs. 

Trust me, a lot of us have that problem on here. Same with using "Mr T." for Taravangian