Storing and sleeping [BOM spoilers]

[Edgedancer he/him]

Most of us would probably answer the question "Can a Feruchemist store an attribute while they are asleep?" by saying that they can only store wakefulness and I still have seen that stated post Bands of Mourning but doesn't the scene in the skimmer effectively disprove this? It needs to be lightweight to fly, which is why all the crewmembers need an iron metalmind. Yet according to Marasi, most of the team uses their journey to the temple to get some sleep in. If they couldn't store weight while sleeping, then there really should have been a mention of the skimmer plummeting down by the increase in weight. Obviously that didn't happen. Does anyone have an explanation for that or can we strike that limitation from Feruchemy?

Edited May 9, 2016 by Edgedancer

[king of nowhere]

sazed said that he only could store wakefulness while sleeping. but in aol era, wayne say he can store healt while sleeping.

So, that clearly points to the answer being "yes, it is possible to store other attributes while sleeping, but it's difficult and it takes practice to do. practice that sazed, as someone who never really tried to use his feruchemy except for his copperminds, lacked, but that wayne has."

[Khyrindor he/him]

I thought Wayne couldn't actually... But it would make sense to be able to do it in your sleep, if you're familiar enough with it to do it instinctively.

[Yata he/him]

I thought about that for the whole night and the only likely explaination is the same of King of nowhere's one or Sanderson's error.

[Pathfinder]

sazed said that he only could store wakefulness while sleeping. but in aol era, wayne say he can store healt while sleeping.

So, that clearly points to the answer being "yes, it is possible to store other attributes while sleeping, but it's difficult and it takes practice to do. practice that sazed, as someone who never really tried to use his feruchemy except for his copperminds, lacked, but that wayne has."

Can you provide the quote where Wayne says he can store while sleeping? In the back of my mind I feel I remember reading that too, but I tried searching by sleep, gold, and health, with none of the searches turning anything up. 

[Edgedancer he/him]

Can you provide the quote where Wayne says he can store while sleeping? In the back of my mind I feel I remember reading that too, but I tried searching by sleep, gold, and health, with none of the searches turning anything up. 

Do you have the ebook? In that case try searching for something along the lines of him staying in bed (which is to say resting not actually sleeping) while eating soup/broth. I think that's what it was.

[Pathfinder]

Do you have the ebook? In that case try searching for something along the lines of him staying in bed (which is to say resting not actually sleeping) while eating soup/broth. I think that's what it was.

I have the kindle ebook. I searched soup, broth, store, wayne soup, wayne store, and bed and that scene still doesn't come up. What is maddening is I know what you are talking about. I vaguely remember it too. All I found however is Wayne saying how usually when storing a lot of health to pass the time he stays in bed a lot, groggy and drinking liquor. Doesn't mention sleeping in said bed. Maybe that is the case with that scene too? He could be mentioning staying in bed and eating soup, but doesn't mean actually sleeping which is where the confusion could come in? Because if that is the case, then perhaps the medallions are the exception to the feruchemist rule? 

Edited May 10, 2016 by Pathfinder

[king of nowhere]

i remember clearly mentioning that he slept, since it already was a point of contentious since sazed stated it was impossible. maybe it is in one of the other books? i think the first mention of it was in aol, and it was confirmed in sos.

[Pathfinder]

i remember clearly mentioning that he slept, since it already was a point of contentious since sazed stated it was impossible. maybe it is in one of the other books? i think the first mention of it was in aol, and it was confirmed in sos.

This is all I was able to find that came close:

 

AoL page 98

"Spent a good two weeks sick in bed after you left"

 

AoL page 109

"Took me a good two weeks in bed to store up that much. Hope that girl of yours is worth it."

 

AoL page 186

"I'll have to spend a few weeks in bed after this, feeling wretched. Otherwise, I'll be unable to heal myself. hell, I'm already storing as much as I can and still move about normally. By the end of the day, I'll barely have enough to heal a scratch."

 

AoL page 192

He preferred to fill it in large chunks. That made him very sick, but he could sleep it off and drink a lot to pass the time. 

(I took this to mean he would store a lot of health, end up catching a cold, stop storing, sleep and drink it off, and then rinse and repeat)

 

Have you had any luck locating it? (although all the quotes are from Alloy of Law, I did do the same searches on Shadows of Self and Bands of Mourning) Guess I am going to have to search by Wayne, which is going to take awhile. Ah well, will follow up if I hopefully find it. 

Edited May 10, 2016 by Pathfinder

[CaptainRyan he/him]

Sanderson is notorious for providing false information via misinformed in-world characters. Unless there is a WoB saying you cannot store attributes while sleeping I would say that it is more than likely Sazed was wrong.

Another possibility: the medallions are different for some reason.

[Pathfinder]

Sanderson is notorious for providing false information via misinformed in-world characters. Unless there is a WoB saying you cannot store attributes while sleeping I would say that it is more than likely Sazed was wrong.

Another possibility: the medallions are different for some reason.

From what I recall there is a WoB that states you can only store wakefulness while sleeping. Unfortunately my search-fu for WoB is non-existant, and my search-fu in ebooks apparently is lacking. I will do my best to locate the scene we are discussing, but I have yet to find it. 

 

edit: just to clarify, I am not pushing to find the quote to disprove anyone. I just feel if we can quote the exact wording of the scene it might give us further insight into what may be the cause, whether it was a typo, meant to be that way, or we just recalled incorrectly. 

Edited May 10, 2016 by Pathfinder

[king of nowhere]

i don't have the ebooks of those, so i cannot contribute. yeah, the part about wayne "sleeping it off" is one of the quotes i remembered, though that's ambiguous. And when i read that the first time, i wondered "is he meaning he's just laying sick in bed, or sazed was wrong in the original trilogy?". So I paid attention to the topic, and i remember finding in the sequels precise words stating that wayne was filling metalminds while sleeping. of course, i may be wrong, but i distinctly remember seeking this line of inquiry myself.

Edited May 10, 2016 by king of nowhere

[Pathfinder]

i don't have the ebooks of those, so i cannot contribute. yeah, the part about wayne "sleeping it off" is one of the quotes i remembered, though that's ambiguous. And when i read that the first time, i wondered "is he meaning he's just laying sick in bed, or sazed was wrong in the original trilogy?". So I paid attention to the topic, and i remember finding in the sequels precise words stating that wayne was filling metalminds while sleeping. of course, i may be wrong, but i distinctly remember seeking this line of inquiry myself.

Lol, thats whats driving me nuts. I rememeber somewhere him mentioning eating soup while sick due to storing which is the scene you are referencing. Yet searching soup, broth, and sleep turns up nothing in all three books regarding that scene. I may actually have to re-read the trilogy just to try and catch it lol. There is something I noticed while digging into all of this, though bear in mind that this does not affect your original point at all, just a tidbit of info I thought funny/interesting. Marasi states on the escape pod that mostly everyone else is sleeping while she talks to Allik, but in actuality less than half are, if any at all. So there are a total of 7 people on the ship plus supplies. Marasi, Allik, Wayne, MeLann, Steris, Wax, and Telsin. Marasi and Allik we clearly know are awake as the scene focuses on them talking. Wax shoots up when Marasi switches bands shaking the ship, revealing he was never really asleep and was eavesdropping. Steris later states she was awake on the ship listing the order of importance/effectiveness she was to the party. MeLann stated earlier she does not need to sleep. Telsin is not mentioned so she, like schrodingers cat could both either be awake or asleep during this scene. Finally the only person clearly stated that is asleep is Wayne as he wakes up suddenly from a dream worrying he was going to fall plummeting out of the ship. So out of 7 people, only one clearly was actually asleep during the escape pod scene. This however doesn't change anything as when they first escaped, all of them were wearing the bands, and Allik states how they are barely able to keep afloat with 7 plus supplies despite that being over the ship's capacity. So it couldn't even be said that they could deal with a slight increase of weight from one or two people sleeping/deactivating the bands, as they barely seemed to be able to with everyone actively wearing the bands. Finally, Marasi assumed most of them were sleeping. Had the ship been able to handle one or two sleeping and thus not storing, then Allik would have freaked/stopped the rest from "going to bed". So something is definitely at least going on with the medallions themselves or it was a mistake on Sanderson's part. Just wish I could find that scene with Wayne to definitively show something is going on. 

Edited May 11, 2016 by Pathfinder

[king of nowhere]

wait a moment, that just got me thinking: could melaan even use a medallion? kandras aren't alllomancers, but maybe medallions can work for them too...

[Yata he/him]

wait a moment, that just got me thinking: could melaan even use a medallion? kandras aren't alllomancers, but maybe medallions can work for them too...

Well Medallions work quite in the same way of Hemalurgy (but not permanently)... They add the Stored SpiritWeb to your own, gifting ability... Therefore if it's possible to gift powers to Kandra with Hemalurgy (and we know it for sure) they may also uses Medallions.

 

Edited May 12, 2016 by Yata

[Jondesu he/him]

wait a moment, that just got me thinking: could melaan even use a medallion? kandras aren't alllomancers, but maybe medallions can work for them too...

She used one for weight onboard the escape craft. So yep, we know they can use medallions for Feruchemy at least.

jW

[Windrunner he/him]

Here's the most direct instance of Wayne sleeping while storing:

By the time they’d piled in, Wayne had been pulling on the cap, whistling softly to himself. She had no idea where he’d gotten it. Now he was snoring softly. After they’d nearly been killed, after he’d had the skin on his back seared off, he was sleeping. She could still smell the pungency of burned cloth, and her ears were ringing.

This on its own does not imply that Wayne is storing, but it is coupled with this quote:

Note that Wayne sleeping here is a side effect of him getting really sickly for a short time, trying to recover a bit of healing power. Marasi thinks he’s just relaxed, which . . . well, he kind of is, but he wouldn’t be sleeping right now save for the effects of his Feruchemy.

 

What this means, I don't know. I'm sure it'll get cleared up when the time comes for definitive editions of the Mistborn books.

[Jondesu he/him]

Here's the most direct instance of Wayne sleeping while storing:

This on its own does not imply that Wayne is storing, but it is coupled with this quote:

 

What this means, I don't know. I'm sure it'll get cleared up when the time comes for definitive editions of the Mistborn books.

That implies to me that he's sick because of storing so much health, so he's sleeping while his body recovers from that.

 

jW

[Pathfinder]

That implies to me that he's sick because of storing so much health, so he's sleeping while his body recovers from that.

 

jW

Yeah, that was my impression as well. You reduce your immune system, catching a cold. Just because you are no longer storing, does not mean said cold suddenly vanishes, and using the health stored to get rid of the cold kinda defeats the purpose of storing it begin with. So that leaves the old way of getting over a cold, rest/sleep and time.