About that unknown force/spike... (Minor Emperor Soul Spoilers)

[What's a Seawolf?]

So I was just re-reading Emperor's Soul and came across a passage that sounded slightly familiar.

 

Forgive me if this has been brought up before.

 

From paperback pg. 131  "Soulstone, as a rock, looked not unlike soapstone or another fine grained stone, but with bits of red mixed in.  As if drops of blood had stained it."

 

And if I remember correctly, the spike controlling Paalm is SoS was silver flecked with red.

 

Is it possible that her spike is actually a Soulstamp, meant not so much for control but to 'rewrite' whoever is spiked?

 

Apply this to the red eyed 'immortals' at the end of BoM.  Maybe they're not a new type of kandra, but just kandra who have had their souls rewritten to serve a different Shard. 

 

In the Mistborn trilogy, we see Marsh with some measure of self-thought and control when Ruin is not focusing on him.  For the enterprising villain, rewritting a soul to being on your side is a lot more efficient then having to constantly watch over and control.

 

Maybe I'm misremembering the color of Paalms spike, but if it is indeed silver flecked with red, it certainly matches the description of Soulstone.

 

Just a thought, and possibly more fuel for the 'Trell is from/has been to Sel' theories.

[Master_Moridin he/him]

The exact description of Paalm's spike is

 

 

 

A small spike, long as a finger, made of some silvery metal with dark red spots, like rusted bits.

The silvery metal bit seems to clash with soulstone's description as a fine-grained stone.  Maybe it can processed in such as way that it turns out looking like metal, but idk.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Master_Moridin

[What's a Seawolf?]

The exact description of Paalm's spike is

 

The silvery metal bit seems to clash with soulstone's description as a fine-grained stone.  Maybe it can processed in such as way that it turns out looking like metal, but idk.

 

True, but I can see how fine grained stone can be gray/silver.  And maybe soulstone on Scadrial becomes metal?  Isn't there a WoB saying that the other Shards would have their own metals on Scadrial?  And if soulstone is a piece of Devotion or Dominion, that would give us another metal.

[Argel he/him]

Isn't the main problem that a soulstamp wouldn't work that far from Sel?

[Rasarr she/her]

Isn't the main problem that a soulstamp wouldn't work that far from Sel?

 

I'm pretty certain this only impacts AonDor, with AonDor growing weaker the further away the Elantrian is from Arelon. Soulstamps are based on objects they alter, not on land shape, so they should work wherever the object would find itself.

[Landis963 he/him]

I'm pretty certain this only impacts AonDor, with AonDor growing weaker the further away the Elantrian is from Arelon. Soulstamps are based on objects they alter, not on land shape, so they should work wherever the object would find itself.

However, the alterations themselves are encoded into symbols that are based on MaiPonese geography. Case in point: We didn't see any in Elantris, despite their obvious utility.

[Rasarr she/her]

However, the alterations themselves are encoded into symbols that are based on MaiPonese geography. Case in point: We didn't see any in Elantris, despite their obvious utility.

 

Hm. Good point. Been a while since I've read Emperor's Soul, so I admit I forgot about the link with geography. It seems like Sel has both the most versatile and yet most impossible-to-use-elsewhere magic in the Cosmere. I'm reminded of those planet vs. planet threads we've had of a recent - seems like Sel's part in those wars would be to just sit there and be the perfect fortress.

 

Brandon did say that there are hacks for every magic system, though, harder or simpler, so I guess if somebody could figure out Elendel Basin's soulstamp "dictionary", OP's theory could is plausible. If an enemy Shard was involved, it's even more possible, seeing how they're supposed to get higher understanding of all things Realmatic upon ascension.

[Argel he/him]

I think "hack" refers to a non-local using the local magic system, such as someone from Scadrial visiting Sel and learning how to soulstamp. Not someone Sel leanring how to soulstamp on Scadrial.

[DocHoliday he/him]

This is from Emperors Soul

“soulstamps. Each was as long as a finger and as wide as a thumb."

[Pathfinder]

I think "hack" refers to a non-local using the local magic system, such as someone from Scadrial visiting Sel and learning how to soulstamp. Not someone Sel leanring how to soulstamp on Scadrial.

I believe it applies to both as we have seen with Vasher and Hoid. Vasher is the case you propose where he uses stormlight to fuel his returned life, while Hoid who is not native to these planets seem to be able to visit them, and figure out ways to hack them to use them elsewhere. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Pathfinder

[A Windspren he/him]

I find it interesting that the Spikes Wax and TenSoon found in the mutated humans Paalm sent after them were silvery-red, without the dark red spots found in Paalm's spike. You might have something here.

[Jazzy Kandra she/her]

I don't think that is what's going on here, but I think that is a REALLY interesting quote, nonetheless!

 

pg. 131  "Soulstone, as a rock, looked not unlike soapstone or another fine grained stone, but with bits of red mixed in.  As if drops of blood had stained it."

 

Bits of red seems like a weird and very specific detail to mention. Brandon could've just left it at fine grained stone, but he flavors that description with that bit of text. Due to the rule of "word economy" (especially in Sanderson, yes, I know he writes a lot but he doesn't do purplish text, if you get what I mean), it's probably important. Soulstone is probably Invested in some way, though, I do not believe it's similar to what Atium and Lerasium are (bodies/physical presence of gods in a compressed form), but it might be from the same Shard that has caused Trellium to appear.

 

Also for reference, the original quote from SoS is: "A small spike, as long as a finger, made of some silvery metal with dark red spots, like rusted bits." (370)

 

And the other spikes (that TenSoon and Wax find in the weird creatures): "TenSoon came up with a thin piece of metal, silvery and perhaps as long as a finger. Did it have a red cast to it, or was that just blood?" (328) (I think it is the same metal, BUT Wax didn't get a good look at it. He couldn't know it was "dark red specks" because the caves are still somewhat dark, TenSoon was holding it, and he doesn't inspect it himself [hold it and examine it closely]")

 

Perhaps things with "red flicks/specls/cast" (like Trellium/Soulstone) are related to this particular Shard, just like things with Red Eyes are related to it. I think that saying that the spike is soulstone takes this a little too far, but I think that it MIGHT be a sign that the same Shard is involved on the events on Scadrial.

[Lirins hand]

On 4/29/2016 at 11:01 AM, Landis963 said:

However, the alterations themselves are encoded into symbols that are based on MaiPonese geography. Case in point: We didn't see any in Elantris, despite their obvious utility.

Did the Dakhor monks' strength diminish the farther they got from their monastery or Fjorden, though?  Or Shuden's ChayShan?  It seems to me like not everything is location based once it is established.

And how can we be sure there were no soulstamps in Elantris?  Would anyone there have known what to look for?  It seems that only the Elantrian magic system is well known in the greater region.  Even the Dakhor monks are more like boogie-men and rumors.  Jindo is Elantris' neighbor and no-one seems to know what Shuden was doing had any magical components.

[Pathfinder]

1 hour ago, Lirins hand said:

Did the Dakhor monks' strength diminish the farther they got from their monastery or Fjorden, though?  Or Shuden's ChayShan?  It seems to me like not everything is location based once it is established.

And how can we be sure there were no soulstamps in Elantris?  Would anyone there have known what to look for?  It seems that only the Elantrian magic system is well known in the greater region.  Even the Dakhor monks are more like boogie-men and rumors.  Jindo is Elantris' neighbor and no-one seems to know what Shuden was doing had any magical components.

Elantrians can still use their powers away from Elantris. Elantris is not the reason they have their powers. It is a giant amplifier. Their powers would not be so overwhelming if it wasn't for Elantris itself. The location based limiter seems to be more in the forms the power takes. So the aons have to involve the base aon that is shaped of that particular land. The forgery stamps need to form that landmass. Possible Dakhor bones have designs that are similar to Fjordjell land mass. The magical potions Hrathen's underlining makes requires specific stirring motions which might mimic that land. Finally I would not be surprised if the chaysan forms mimic their land mass as well. 

[Landis963 he/him]

1 hour ago, Lirins hand said:

Did the Dakhor monks' strength diminish the farther they got from their monastery or Fjorden, though?  Or Shuden's ChayShan?  It seems to me like not everything is location based once it is established.

And how can we be sure there were no soulstamps in Elantris?  Would anyone there have known what to look for?  It seems that only the Elantrian magic system is well known in the greater region.  Even the Dakhor monks are more like boogie-men and rumors.  Jindo is Elantris' neighbor and no-one seems to know what Shuden was doing had any magical components.

No stamps in Elantris is via WoB.  And Dakhor/ChayShan might very well have diminished in power outside of their respective home territories,  we just wouldn't know because we haven't seen the power used in Fjordell proper.  (Or Jindo proper, in the case of ChayShan)  And clearly the rate of how quickly the power fails differs from nation to nation, e.g. Shuden's kata in Kae was much more effective than Reoden's Aon Tia in Teod.

Regardless, I am of the opinion that once the Dakhor transformation takes hold, it continues being powered by the Dor as though they were in the place where the transformation happened, i.e. Dakhor Monastery, Fjordell.  

[[email protected] he/him]

Have we considered the Trell as Odium theory and that his presence creates some red streaked foci of the existing gods?

 

I assume the big red swath approaching Scadrial to be Odium and that Metal is the same stuff as souls... so the red apperances could have to do with "Odium rust." It also could have effected soul stones on Self.