zeppomarks Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 On 4/1/2016 at 1:21 PM, Nethseäar said: Based on the hint in the Ars Arcanum This. WoB says that Khriss understands the Cosmere better than anyone, even Hoid, so it feels pretty solid when she says that Hemalurgy is incredibly important to the Cosmere. Now, this probably means that there's something that can be done with Hemalurgy that we haven't been told yet. I'm thinking it's either the control by Harmony that it allows (I sincerely doubt it though), the fact that it just gives a person some other power, including the ability to compound, which as far as I understand the medallions don't do (the most likely possibility, imo), or, due to the fact that they deal with the spiritual realm, maybe they can transfer any power that deals with the physical or cognitive realm to another person, essentially allowing the ability to trade powers (via black market, given the whole murder thing, I'm assuming) between worlds. That last one is obviously crazy, but really difficult to disprove, at least as far as my understanding goes. I'm still not super clear on how investiture works and all that. But I don't see why you couldn't spike a coinshot then pop that spike into some rando from Azir or where ever. Then, boom, Sigzil's cousin is pushing dudes in Shardplate around. Ok, so maybe not, but a guy can dream, right? 1
Jondesu he/him Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 Even more potent than simply giving powers to people who wouldn't have access to them normal, @zeppomarks, is the potential to combine features of multiple different magic systems. There's some truly terrifying prospects there. jW 1
zeppomarks Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 Good point, @Jondesu. I've read some folks' speculation on this and it would be crazy, I only refrained from mentioning it because I'm still unsure how investiture interacts. I think I read somewhere that some types of investiture have trouble interacting with invested objects or something? I'm not sure what the details are, but if what you said is possible.... Hoo-boy... Can't wait to read those novels.
Yata he/him Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) 9 hours ago, zeppomarks said: including the ability to compound, which as far as I understand the medallions don't do (the most likely possibility, imo) To be honest we have no proof about this. I see no reason for the medallion to be uncapable of compound. Watching the level of Feruchemical Charge the Southern may use in their medallions. I think it's very very likely they may compound with the Medallion tech. I am waiting from the next book, Wax to go at Ranette's house with one of the airship's medallion and ask her to try to compound weight. It may be a cool scene. Edited August 22, 2016 by Yata
zeppomarks Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 37 minutes ago, Yata said: To be honest we have no proof about this. I see no reason for the medallion to be uncapable of compound. Well we don't have any proof either way yet. But, you're probably right. Compounding occurs when an allomancer burns a metal that they have feruchemically charged, but since the medallions have no identity, any allomancer could burn the metal, as long as they were the appropriate misting. So if Wayne had swallowed bits of that highly charged ferruchemical gold reserve, he would have been able to compound gold. Wax could compound the weight medallion. But the reason why this doesn't replace hemalurgy is because one would have to be both a nicrosil ferring (to fill nicrosil with the investiture of whatever their misting ability is) and an aluminum ferring in order to remove one's identity while charging the nicrosil with allomantic investiture. As it stands right now, the only way to achieve this is through hemalurgy since no one is born with more than one allomantic or ferrochemical ability. Also, I believe that since Hemalurgy takes a bit of the soul directly, it's not limited to just taking investiture from Scadrial. It's likely that it could be used to take the abilities from any invested person in the Cosmere if the correct process was known. This is something that the medallions certainly couldn't accomplish without Hemalurgy.
Yata he/him Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 1 hour ago, zeppomarks said: Well we don't have any proof either way yet. But, you're probably right. Compounding occurs when an allomancer burns a metal that they have feruchemically charged, but since the medallions have no identity, any allomancer could burn the metal, as long as they were the appropriate misting. So if Wayne had swallowed bits of that highly charged ferruchemical gold reserve, he would have been able to compound gold. Wax could compound the weight medallion. Actually Wayne would be capable of compound Nutrition (what a Bendalloymind keep) and Wax would be able to compound Speed. Of course if someone provide to them some Unkeyed Metalmind of the right metal. 1 hour ago, zeppomarks said: But the reason why this doesn't replace hemalurgy is because one would have to be both a nicrosil ferring (to fill nicrosil with the investiture of whatever their misting ability is) and an aluminum ferring in order to remove one's identity while charging the nicrosil with allomantic investiture. As it stands right now, the only way to achieve this is through hemalurgy since no one is born with more than one allomantic or ferrochemical ability. Yes you have right, without complete Feruchemist the only way to obtain a Medallion from nothing is with Hemalurgy. But once you have an Feruchemical nicrosil and falluminium medallion. You are able to start and industry (if it's possible to store F-Alluminium ability) with this Alpha-Medallion alone. 1 hour ago, zeppomarks said: Also, I believe that since Hemalurgy takes a bit of the soul directly, it's not limited to just taking investiture from Scadrial. It's likely that it could be used to take the abilities from any invested person in the Cosmere if the correct process was known. This is something that the medallions certainly couldn't accomplish without Hemalurgy. This is true and false at the same time. Once you have what I called Alpha-Medallion, you may give it to someone with another Cosmere's magic and made him store it in NicrosilMind (at least the ability keep in the SpiritWeb).
zeppomarks Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, Yata said: Actually Wayne would be capable of compound Nutrition (what a Bendalloymind keep) and Wax would be able to compound Speed. Of course if someone provide to them some Unkeyed Metalmind of the right metal. Oh, yeah. Was pretty tired when I posted that. 6 hours ago, Yata said: Yes you have right, without complete Feruchemist the only way to obtain a Medallion from nothing is with Hemalurgy. But once you have an Feruchemical nicrosil and falluminium medallion. You are able to start and industry (if it's possible to store F-Alluminium ability) with this Alpha-Medallion alone. Still, though, hemalurgy is needed. And, I believe, you would need a lot of these alpha-medallions wouldn't you? And probably hefty amount of folks to spike, both donors and recipients. One person can only store so much of a quality at a time. Plus, there would be the added difficulty of finding the nicrosil/alluminum ferings in the first place. Not the most showy of abilities. Seems far more sensible, given the fact that you need to understand hemalurgy to get this all started, to hire one of those coinshot runners and just spike them instead of going through all that hassle to make even one medallion. 6 hours ago, Yata said: This is true and false at the same time. Once you have what I called Alpha-Medallion, you may give it to someone with another Cosmere's magic and made him store it in NicrosilMind (at least the ability keep in the SpiritWeb). Hm. I suppose you're right... But you'd need two sources of nicrosil for investiture. The, let's say Elantrian, would have to draw feruchemical investiture while simultaneously depositing AonDor investiture, right? Is that even possible? I don't believe we've ever seen anyone drawing and storing with the same feruchemical metal at the same time, have we? Edited August 22, 2016 by zeppomarks Punctuation.
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