Hemalurgy is no longer of great interest to the Cosmere?

[Pathfinder]

As far as we saw, the Southern have not mixed Allomancy-Feruchemy Medallions or if that combination of Powers is bein produced by the Southern

 

And we don't know if Nazh and Khriss have the knowledge of Southern at all.

That's how their airships work. Iron feruchemy to lighten the ship, steel allomancy to push the blades to get them to work. That's why Allik needed Wax to charge the primer cube

[Yata he/him]

That's how their airships work. Iron feruchemy to lighten the ship, steel allomancy to push the blades to get them to work. That's why Allik needed Wax to charge the primer cube

But maybe not in the same Medallion.

Quite every Medallion contain Heat and another Power. Medallions with three power are extremely rare. It may be really hard to Khriss find a way to get one of them... more easy to meet Wax and simply ask him 

[Pathfinder]

But maybe not in the same Medallion.

Quite every Medallion contain Heat and another Power. Medallions with three power are extremely rare. It may be really hard to Khriss find a way to get one of them... more easy to meet Wax and simply ask him 

So let me get this straight. Nazh fights with a leecher to get a map, some how finds Jasnah's trunk under fathoms of water, impersonates an ardent just to be able to draw bridge 4, but finding a medallion or even making one when each individual source (iron feruchemy, steel allomancy) is readily available is too difficult?

[Nyali she/her]

But maybe not in the same Medallion.

Quite every Medallion contain Heat and another Power. Medallions with three power are extremely rare. It may be really hard to Khriss find a way to get one of them... more easy to meet Wax and simply ask him 

 

Err, nearly every medallion contains weight on a ship, not warmth. Outside of ships, I don't know how common weight or warmth are. Presumably they have ways of keeping warm at home other than the medallions since they need to store up the Warmth somehow, which requires them to be warm without them.

[Yata he/him]

Err, nearly every medallion contains weight on a ship, not warmth. Outside of ships, I don't know how common weight or warmth are. Presumably they have ways of keeping warm at home other than the medallions since they need to store up the Warmth somehow, which requires them to be warm without them.

They have Firemothers and Firefathers to produce Heat (maybe by Compounding for the whole comunity). I have the impression that they use Medallions as primary way to heat themself.... It's possible that quite all Medallion with some little exceptions have F-Heat.

 

@Pathfinder: Maybe it's not extreme difficult but was easier to ask to Wax. Or maybe there are some WorldHopping relate problems that made go to South, steal and return hard to them.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Yata

[Nyali she/her]

The translation medallions don't have heat, we know. We only know of three medallions, actually - weight/heat, weight/connection, and just memories.

 

I didn't catch that bit about firemothers and firefathers - is that in the text?

Edited May 20, 2016 by Nyali

[Pathfinder]

They have Firemothers and Firefathers to produce Heat (maybe by Compounding for the whole comunity). I have the impression that they use Medallions as primary way to heat themself.... It's possible that quite all Medallion with some little exceptions have F-Heat.

 

@Pathfinder: Maybe it's not extreme difficult but was easier to ask to Wax. Or maybe there are some WorldHopping relate problems that made go to South, steal and return hard to them.

See I would reference something but unfortunately I cannot (read not allowed to as per forum rules). So instead of referencing that, I will ask you this. Which is more appealing to a scientist:

 

Asking second hand experience in order to test a hypothesis?

 

or

 

Testing said hypothesis personally or in a controlled environment with materials at hand so you can repeat the test as needed?

 

Sounds like to me Khriss would much rather go through the trouble of attaining a medallion with Allomantic steel and Feruchemical iron if it meant she could set up a lab and test her theories as often and as varied as she wanted, instead of having to rely on second hand answers taken off the cuff. 

Edited May 20, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Yata he/him]

Probably you have right about the better way to prove a theory.

 

I am still unsure that they can't simply have another kind of issues (for example not knowing yet about Medallion's tech, or worldhopping problem) but of course I can't be sure of that.

 

I have just a single (and maybe wrong) clue about Medallions' tech usable by everyone but it's from source that be posted here (as far as I know)

[Edgedancer he/him]

See I would reference something but unfortunately I cannot (read not allowed to as per forum rules). So instead of referencing that, I will ask you this. Which is more appealing to a scientist:

 

Asking second hand experience in order to test a hypothesis?

 

or

 

Testing said hypothesis personally or in a controlled environment with materials at hand so you can repeat the test as needed?

 

Sounds like to me Khriss would much rather go through the trouble of attaining a medallion with Allomantic steel and Feruchemical iron if it meant she could set up a lab and test her theories as often and as varied as she wanted, instead of having to rely on second hand answers taken off the cuff. 

Have we even seen a single medallion that can give allomantic abilities (apart from the bands itself)? Yes, the airship needs allomancy to work but allomancers do exsist in the south, so that doesn't mean said allomancy comes from a medallion. Depending on what exactly is needed to make a metalmind contain allomancy, the Southerners may simply not have the means to create those.

[Nyali she/her]

Have we even seen a single medallion that can give allomantic abilities (apart from the bands itself)? Yes, the airship needs allomancy to work but allomancers do exsist in the south, so that doesn't mean said allomancy comes from a medallion. Depending on what exactly is needed to make a metalmind contain allomancy, the Southerners may simply not have the means to create those.

 

Technically, we've only seen four medallion powers on screen (five if you count the nicrosil that powers it), all of which were feruchemical. Warmth, weight, connection, and memory.

 

But, I had the impression that none of the sailors were allomancers, given how they are treated by the society. If so, how did they get the ship aloft? They'd need a steel allomancy medallion

[Edgedancer he/him]

Technically, we've only seen four medallion powers on screen (five if you count the nicrosil that powers it), all of which were feruchemical. Warmth, weight, connection, and memory.

 

But, I had the impression that none of the sailors were allomancers, given how they are treated by the society. If so, how did they get the ship aloft? They'd need a steel allomancy medallion

They treat allomancers very well, true but I also got the impression that positions concerning the airshps are also very respected, so them being connected to allomancers by necessity would make sense. The novelty of being a divinity would also wear off extremly fast, if it is something that can just be passed on to anybody.

On a notes of logistics, from how I understand the medallions, creating one for an allomantic ability would require a twinborn of feruchemical nicrosil and the allomantic metal in question, seeing how rare twinborns already in the north, which has much more allomancers than the south, and the chances of them having even the ingredients so to speak for allomantic medallions is rather rare. Plus, you think Allik would have sponsored one of those for their field trip, if they had them, otherwise the escape ship would have been rather useless if it didn't have one of those medallions.

[Yata he/him]

Actually to create a medallion you need F-Nicrosil, F-Alluminium and every powers you want to put in the medallion.

 

But probably you may use another medalion to provide yourself with the needed powers, for example a Medalion with F-Nicrosil (well every medallion have this) and F-Alluminium.

 

With this "Alpha Medallion" a Coinshooter may in theory create another medallion with A-Steal powers. The "limit" we saw with the Medallion's power are probably caused by some Interference between Spiritweb from different Sources.

[Nyali she/her]

I'd just expect any Allomancers they had to be of note, especially when they were getting armed with weapons and such near the end. Also, didn't VenDell explicitly mention that it's possible for Nicrosil Feruchemy to be used to give someone Allomantic powers when they were discussing how a metalmind usable by anyone could mean giving non-metalborn the powers of a Mistborn?

 

Obviously, the person making the medallion doesn't need to be able to use all metals involved. There are no full Feruchemists on Sacrdial, so how could a medallion that combined three metals be made if one person had to make the whole thing alone? As to how someone puts Allomancy into the medallion, that's unclear, but it's also unclear how the whole medallion is made non-identity-locked despite ferrings filling it, so I don't get how feruchemy gets in there either.

EDIT:

But probably you may use another medalion to provide yourself with the needed powers, for example a Medalion with F-Nicrosil (well every medallion have this) and F-Alluminium.

Oh! Duh, that makes total sense. Dunno why that didn't occur to me xD You start by having an Aluminum Ferring hold two Aluminum metalminds, storing Identity in one until she has no Identity, then storing the rest in the other, making it an unkeyed metalmind. Then you give it to a Nicrosil Ferring, who taps Nicrosil to store Identity in the Aluminum metalmind, and then creates an unkeyed Nicrosil/Aluminum metalmind. Then, you give this Nicrosil/Aluminum "medallion-maker" metalmind to another Ferring or Misting who stores Aluminum and taps Nicrosil to create a metalmind that uses Nicrosil and their metal. Then, you hand off both to another Ferring or Misting, who stores a third metal in the medallion. Then, you can apparently pass it off one more time, but it's hard, and after that it stops working.

I know that's what you said, but I'm just talking through the whole process to make sure I've got it...

Edited May 23, 2016 by Nyali

[Yata he/him]

I'd just expect any Allomancers they had to be of note, especially when they were getting armed with weapons and such near the end. Also, didn't VenDell explicitly mention that it's possible for Nicrosil Feruchemy to be used to give someone Allomantic powers when they were discussing how a metalmind usable by anyone could mean giving non-metalborn the powers of a Mistborn?

Well we saw this... The Bands are actually Medallions with 32 Metallic Powers.

[Nyali she/her]

Well we saw this... The Bands are actually Medallions with 32 Metallic Powers.

Well, sure, but that's a totally different case. The Bands were made by one person who had everything and could do whatever with it. The medallions have to be made by passing them from person to person, assembly-line style.

[Edgedancer he/him]

I'd just expect any Allomancers they had to be of note, especially when they were getting armed with weapons and such near the end. Also, didn't VenDell explicitly mention that it's possible for Nicrosil Feruchemy to be used to give someone Allomantic powers when they were discussing how a metalmind usable by anyone could mean giving non-metalborn the powers of a Mistborn?

 

Obviously, the person making the medallion doesn't need to be able to use all metals involved. There are no full Feruchemists on Sacrdial, so how could a medallion that combined three metals be made if one person had to make the whole thing alone? As to how someone puts Allomancy into the medallion, that's unclear, but it's also unclear how the whole medallion is made non-identity-locked despite ferrings filling it, so I don't get how feruchemy gets in there either.

EDIT:

Oh! Duh, that makes total sense. Dunno why that didn't occur to me xD You start by having an Aluminum Ferring hold two Aluminum metalminds, storing Identity in one until she has no Identity, then storing the rest in the other, making it an unkeyed metalmind. Then you give it to a Nicrosil Ferring, who taps Nicrosil to store Identity in the Aluminum metalmind, and then creates an unkeyed Nicrosil/Aluminum metalmind. Then, you give this Nicrosil/Aluminum "medallion-maker" metalmind to another Ferring or Misting who stores Aluminum and taps Nicrosil to create a metalmind that uses Nicrosil and their metal. Then, you hand off both to another Ferring or Misting, who stores a third metal in the medallion. Then, you can apparently pass it off one more time, but it's hard, and after that it stops working.

I know that's what you said, but I'm just talking through the whole process to make sure I've got it...

1)Who says the south doesn't have full feruchemists?

2)Only mention of Allomancy for everyone I can find searching though the book quickly was in context of the Bands.

3)One big problem with your metalmind creating theory there, what about the Excisor? We have no clue what it does but it is needed, so a theory without it can be assumed to be false.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Edgedancer

[Yata he/him]

1)Who says the south doesn't have full feruchemists?

2)Only mention of Allomancy for everyone I can find searching though the book quickly was in context of the Bands.

3)One big problem with your metalmind creating theory there, what about the Excisor? We have no clue what it does but it is needed, so a theory without it can be assumed to be false.

The Excisor may be what I called "Alpha Medallions" of more simply Medallions with F-Alluminium and F-Nicrosil. With maybe some Medallion with a single power to have some "sample".

 

@Nyali: I don't understand if a Alluminium Ferring store his Identity in a Metalmind, what is "the rest" who may store elsewhere ?

Edit: I undertood what you want to say, but your method doesn't work.

If you pass an Unkeyed AllumiuniumMind to a Soulbearer and the Soulbearer fill a NicrosilMind with his own power.

You will have an object of Nicrosil-Alluminium that every A-Ferring may tap Identity but only the original Nicrosil Ferring may tap Investiture. Because the Nicrosil Ferring can't store identity to create an unkeyed NicrosilMind

Edited May 23, 2016 by Yata

[Szmit]

I don't think there was one thing mentioned yet: hemalurgical powers are inharitated.

That allows you for some realy cool things, because power of spikes that are mostly in-body, throughout generations decay slowly, and due to inharitance of power, the grand grand grand grand son in a line that inharitated the spike would be a realy strong allomancer, and mabye a mistborn. In fact except for lerasium, spiking of dying allomancer is the best way to recreate power of old allomancers.

[Yata he/him]

9 hours ago, Szmit said:

I don't think there was one thing mentioned yet: hemalurgical powers are inharitated.

That allows you for some realy cool things, because power of spikes that are mostly in-body, throughout generations decay slowly, and due to inharitance of power, the grand grand grand grand son in a line that inharitated the spike would be a realy strong allomancer, and mabye a mistborn. In fact except for lerasium, spiking of dying allomancer is the best way to recreate power of old allomancers.

Actually the Hemalurgy trait is hardly inharitated. It's possible but more unlikely than usual Spiritual inherit. we may see it also with some Hemalurgy Construct like Kandra, Koloss and Inquisitor... Their baby aren't never itself another Kandra, Koloss or Inquisitor.

I don't think you may build a functional chain to improve Allomancy in a legacy (without a ton of Fortune).

[Szmit]

Isn't there a WoB that hemalurgical changes are inharitated, because sDNA is inharitated just as the normal one?

[Yata he/him]

6 minutes ago, Szmit said:

Isn't there a WoB that hemalurgical changes are inharitated, because sDNA is inharitated just as the normal one?

The Hemalurgy gifted SDNA is possible inharitable, but it's rare to actually happen.

Or if you mean other thing, sorry if I don't understand your point.

[Oversleep]

The only WoB about something like that I remember was something along the lines of asking whether children of Inquisitors would have a better chance of being metalborn and Brandon said "there would be... complications."

[Szmit]

5 hours ago, Oversleep said:

The only WoB about something like that I remember was something along the lines of asking whether children of Inquisitors would have a better chance of being metalborn and Brandon said "there would be... complications."

I've researched this, and it looks like it's the only one that tackled this topic, although he answered "Yes, but there would be... complications."

When I read it first time, I suspected they would have probability of becoming a misting somewhere between a child of mistborn and a child of misting, and these complications to be something like lack of eyes, or ability to posses an unusual number of abilities. Now I still prefer my orginal opinion, but I understand where @Yata took his from.

[Yata he/him]

ok to be honest the follow WoB is not the one I talked before but I can't find the right one.

Quote

QUESTION (PARAPHRASED)

Would Inqusitors’s kids have Allomancy?

BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)

Not usually. It happens sometimes, but not usually.

[Brandon] then mentioned a little about sDNA, but that it's not inherited as much as it is when it's natural.

 

[Szmit]

INTERVIEW: May, 2010

Spoiler

 

Ancient 17th Shard Question and Answer (Paraphrased)

CHAOS

You've said that Inquisitors could have children. Would those children have a better chance at being Allomancers compared to if they had the kids before they were Inquisitors?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, but there also could be...complications.

 

There is also:
INTERVIEW: Oct 1st, 2013

Spoiler

 

Steelheart Signing Report - Argent (Paraphrased)

QUESTION

Is spiritual DNA inherited the same as regular DNA?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Inherited similarly, but not 100% identically, to regular DNA.

 

From theoryland.

Edit:

So it looks like hemalurgic thickening of magic in bloodlines isn't as simple as it seemed.

But considering that spikes are reusable, and they do improve chance of a misting birth, using them with Spook's vision in mind for a long time would seriously improve power and chances of birth of allomancers.

Also, if animals could posses implanted allomancy thanks to hemalurgy, and they could even in the weakest way inherit it, there could be createtd a factory of allomancy, even if you could only get you powers not very effectively, it is still something incredible! (Although considering how inquisitor powers are inharitated, that might not work so well. But on the other side collosus descendants do are stronger than normal people.)

PS: Regardless of everything, having your own power is so much more cool, than just using medallion.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Szmit
Conclusions added