Identity, Metalminds, and "Going to Zero". Also a lot of death.

[DeadFencer]

So the Southerners are able to use the metalminds of other partially because of a metalmind is filled while the storer is also storing aluminum, the metalmind's power won't be keyed to any specific Identity. This requires the storer to "go to zero", or store all of a given attribute (in the case Identity) in the metalmind. However, previous books established Feruchemists cannot store all of an attribute they have at once. They can, for example, store almost all of their strength, but not all of it. This seems like a contradiction. I propose, however, that Feruchemists actually CAN store all of a given attribute. It will just kill them for most metals, which is why they thought it couldn't be done. To support my theory, and because I have too much time in my hands, I have compiled a list of potential side effects of storing all of a given attribute you have at once.

Speed: the body needs to be able to move so blood and such can move. Everything in your body stops. You die.

Weight: this you can store all of. However, you'll never be truly weightless, since you'll need a metalmind on you to continue storing.

Senses: this one seems to not kill you. Maybe you can't recover your senses if you store all of them?

Strength: unable to resist pressure of atmosphere. Crushed to death. (Someone with physics knowledge- does the atmosphere require constant resistance by humans like this?)

Mental Speed: brain unable to send commands to body. Brain death.

Warmth: instantly freeze to death.

Breath: instantly suffocate.

Food/Energy: instantly starve to death.

Health: instantly die of disease/ viruses inside your body.

Determination: you entire body loses the will to do anything. Lungs stop pumping. Blood stops flowing. Heart stops beating.

Fortune: crushed by meteor. While being hit by car. While dying of mysterious spleen-exploding condition.

Connection: lose connection to human experience. Die a death of humanity, which is in itself the most human thing to do. (Okay, this one I have no idea for. Maybe you can go to zero for connection)

So that's about 4 of the 16 metals you can survive storing all of an attribute in. Of those, 3 weren't widely known until recently in Scadrial's history.

[Oversleep]

Strength: unable to resist pressure of atmosphere. Crushed to death. (Someone with physics knowledge- does the atmosphere require constant resistance by humans like this?) nah, not the case - you can have atrophied muscles and not be crushed by pressure - the issue would rather be heart getting too weak to pump blood

Mental Speed: brain unable to send commands to body. Brain death. You get so slow that you don't realize you're storing so you can't stop

Warmth: instantly freeze to death. You'd die of hypothermia before you freezed

Breath: instantly suffocate. Not instantly.

Food/Energy: instantly starve to death. Not instantly.

Health: instantly die of disease/ viruses inside your body. I'd say you basically get effects of super-AIDS - you die of simple cold.

Determination: you entire body loses the will to do anything. Lungs stop pumping. Blood stops flowing. Heart stops beating. No, the determination is entirely mental. You'd probably just lose will to do anything and would just sit there, unable to make the effort of stoping storing. Not fatal unless there is noone nearby to take the electrummind away. Can be stored 100%.

Fortune: crushed by meteor. While being hit by car. While dying of mysterious spleen-exploding condition. And you developed cancer. Financial crisis makes your family starve to death. Odium gets free.

Connection: lose connection to human experience. Die a death of humanity, which is in itself the most human thing to do. (Okay, this one I have no idea for. Maybe you can go to zero for connection) You probably can.

So that's about 4 of the 16 metals you can survive storing all of an attribute in. Of those, 3 weren't widely known until recently in Scadrial's history.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Oversleep

[Pechvarry]

This requires the storer to "go to zero", or store all of a given attribute (in the case Identity) in the metalmind. However, previous books established Feruchemists cannot store all of an attribute they have at once. They can, for example, store almost all of their strength, but not all of it. This seems like a contradiction.

 

I would propose a different theory: identity isn't binary, and doesn't need to be at 0 for a metalmind to be unkeyed.  Looking at the rest of the cosmere, it looks like at a low enough level of Identity, a boat and water is the same thing.  A large rock can become smoke.  An ugly vase can become a beautiful one.  It would seem, to me, like you could have enough identity to be classified as human, but not enough to be "you".  

[CaptainRyan he/him]

I would propose a different theory: identity isn't binary, and doesn't need to be at 0 for a metalmind to be unkeyed.  Looking at the rest of the cosmere, it looks like at a low enough level of Identity, a boat and water is the same thing.  A large rock can become smoke.  An ugly vase can become a beautiful one.  It would seem, to me, like you could have enough identity to be classified as human, but not enough to be "you".  

 

This is also how I assumed storing F Identity worked - you simply lose the unique "identifying" characteristics that mark your sDNA as "yours" and it instead can be used to "identify" anyone.

[IndigoAjah he/him]

I think you can go to zero connection and going to zero connection or identity would make your future undetectable to Atium (the former stops any connections to you being made on the spiritual or cognitive planes and thus no way of the Atium connecting to you to predict your future, the latter means Atium can connect but has no idea who you are to predict with).

 

The trouble is, if you go to zero with identity, can you come back? Would you have the identity needed to tap identity?

 

 

EDIT: do you think you could fill Aluminium to go (WoT Spoilers -

"Grey Man" from WoT

/ assassin that has too little identity to notice or remember after the event

Edited March 28, 2016 by IndigoAjah

[killersquirrel59 he/him]

I think a lot depends on what is happening to you in the Cognitive Realm while storing Identity. Is your glass bead actually changing ala being Forged or Soulcast? Or is it just getting blurry and confused? If you store fully to zero do you cease to exist at all in the Cognitive? 

 

(Incidentally this is the beginning of a theory I'm potentially working on to account for Scadrian world hopping through Feruchemy by ceasing to exist in the Cognitive realm then immediately tapping all that Identity at once and somehow following your newly recreated Identity back to the Cognitive Realm). 

[Eki]

Weight: this you can store all of. However, you'll never be truly weightless, since you'll need a metalmind on you to continue storing.

Actually, assuming things work like in our world, going to zero mass would cause every single particle in your body to start traveling at the speed of light. At least for a fraction of a second, since you'd immediately die, causing you to stop storing mass, leading to the particles slowing down again... Not sure what would happen then. It wouldn't be pretty.

But yeah, the speed of light is really just the speed of anything without mass traveling through vacuum. Mass is the thing that allows stuff to slow down.

I think either there's some limit, or storing too much starts making you too sick to continue. I doubt it would really be possible in practice to blow yourself up using an ironmind.

[Landis963 he/him]

Actually, assuming things work like in our world, going to zero mass would cause every single particle in your body to start traveling at the speed of light. At least for a fraction of a second, since you'd immediately die, causing you to stop storing mass, leading to the particles slowing down again... Not sure what would happen then. It wouldn't be pretty.

But yeah, the speed of light is really just the speed of anything without mass traveling through vacuum. Mass is the thing that allows stuff to slow down.

I think either there's some limit, or storing too much starts making you too sick to continue. I doubt it would really be possible in practice to blow yourself up using an ironmind.

 

Brandon's mentioned that there's a lower limit to what you can store at any given time, IIRC.