[BoM Spoilers] Clarifications on Investiture & Identity

[Mr. Staccato]

Hey guys, I know I'm new and all but I just couldn't help putting this up here since I found out that not many people seemed to get the Investiture Feruchemy idea and anyway I THINK I have a good idea of what it entails. Anyway, if it's wrong, just point it out because I'd really rather have you tell me what's wrong with the theory so that we can discuss it. Also, if this topic has already been opened somewhere, feel free to remove it (since I'm too much of a newbie to get how to do it anyway).

 

Also, if you haven't read Bands of Mourning for some reason, you might want to refrain from reading the rest of the theory below because some passages WILL DEFINITELY SPOIL YOU SENSELESS.

 

 

Investiture:

 

 Okay, I'd like to propose this. (Note that this theory is not in itself unique - chances are somebody else in the forums has already put forth something similar in nature to what I'm typing here, but since almost every other explanation I've come across in the matters are downright confusing, I'll be presenting a hopefully clearer explanation on the nature of Investiture and Identity).

All Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities are a form of Investiture.

Everybody knows this of course, but the matter is always interpreted differently. Well, my take on the nature of storing Investiture is that it is absolutely useless when a Soulbearer Ferring is the one storing it. The reason for this is because, ingrained into his Soulweb is only one kind of Investiture - that is storing Investiture itself. (Get it?)

But when a Full Feruchemist is the one doing the storing process, things begin working differently. As I've said, all Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities are a form of Investiture - so when a Feruchemist actually does store said attribute, he is actually storing his ability TO STORE ONE OF THE OTHER FIFTEEN ATTRIBUTES.

It's like this. A Feruchemist can store Heat within a brass metalmind. But if he has a piece of nicrosil with him, he can instead store within the nicrosil metalmind his ability to STORE HEAT. Having imparted the Investiture of Heat upon the nicrosilmind, for a time being, the Feruchemist loses the ability to store Heat until he taps it again.

By itself this ability is useless, that is until the Feruchemist uses this ability in conjunction with aluminum to bypass Identity (more on this later).

So the concept behind storing Investiture is that it can transform a non-ferring or non-allomancer (if the Feruchemist in question also happens to be a Mistborn, a Twinborn, or somebody in possession of a Hemalurgical spike) temporarily into a Metalborn of the specific Investiture stored. Using the example I gave above, by tapping the nicrosilmind, for a time being you become a Firesoul!

 

 Note: I also think it's possible to store more than one form of Investiture into a nicrosil metalmind, but based on accounts in the book there are also certain complications in doing so. Said account can be read underneath if you'd like.

 

 

 Identity:

 

Now unto that pesky thing we call Identity. Contrary to sources outside the actual books, Identity does not store your physical sense of being, rather that of your spirit's.

This means that storing Identity does not actually make you feel like you're parting with anything, because how in the world can your physical senses actually feel that you are parting with a spiritual attribute? That's beyond their range (hence the reason why storing Identity made aluminum Ferrings feel like they were just as useless as aluminum Mistings - even if they were storing something, they had no idea they were actually doing ANYTHING).

It's not like speed, where storing it causes you to grow slow, or mental speed, which makes you feel dull and slow-witted during active storage, no, Identity is such an abstract concept that it is beyond comprehension.

Ignoring how aluminum Ferrings even began to understand the implications of this ability (unless Harmony clued them in), one cannot help but wonder how they ever got to the point of actually doing something useful with the ability by the time the events of Bands of Mourning occured.

For the same reason nicrosil Ferrings are useless on their own, storing Identity is only ever useful for a person with Full Feruchemical powers. You store Identity on an aluminum metalmind (your soul thus becoming something akin to a mirror), then you store Investiture on a nicrosil metalmind. (Pick a power.... any power...)

If you simply store Investiture on a nicrosil mentalmind without first rendering yourself completely identity-less, there's still no point to the ability because by the end, only you can still tap the stored Investiture.

 An example of this can be seen in Bands of Mourning (SPOILER ALERT: DO NOT READ FURTHER IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE BOOK!)

 

 

 “You think us gods?” Allik said, shaking his head. “You see that? The one you hold? It is very

complicated. It is stored with the ability to give yourself a sliver of holiness.”

 

“Investiture,” Waxillium said. “This inner ring is nicrosil. You tap it, and it grants you Investiture

—turning you into a temporary Feruchemist who has the ability to fill a metalmind with weight.”

 He held up the medallion. “The iron on this is for convenience, right? You can fill it, but so long as

you’re tapping the Investiture, you could touch any source of iron and turn it into a metalmind.”

“You know much about this, Mysterious One,” Allik said. “You are wise and—”

“I learn quickly,” Waxillium said, glancing at Marasi. She nodded for him to continue. This was

fascinating … but the Metallic Arts was not one of her areas of expertise. Waxillium had a passion

for it though. “What’s this other ring built into the medallion?”

“That grants the warmth,” Allik said. “It is a grand combination—two attributes, from separate

rings. Took us long to make these work, yah? The one I wear now, also grants two. Weight and

Connection. I’ve seen medallions with three. Twice in my life only. Every attempt at four has failed.*”

 

 

 So let's review, kay? The amulet Waxillium was holding had three parts:

 

 1.) An outer-ring of Brass

 2.) An inner-ring of Nicrosil

 3.) A circle of Iron on the middle

 

 So the Nicrosilring had two attributes stored inside - namely Skimmer Investiture and Firesoul Investiture. If I had to hazard a guess, the Nicrosilring had been stored with Investiture while the Full Feruchemist in question had no Identity. When Allik held it, since it had no Identity, he could tap on the Nicrosilring's Investiture becoming a temporary Skimmer and Firesoul along with his pre-existing power. The ring of Brass and circle of Iron though were there because even if you had the ring of Nicrosil in there, you couldn't actually use it to store weight or heat - only the capacity to do so.

 So you tap Nicrosil, then store heat into the Brass ring and weight into the Iron circle.

 *Theoretically, it's also possible to store more than two forms of Investiture into a nicrosil metalmind, as evidenced by the passage up above, but the same passage also gives us this tidbit:

 

 

“So wear multiple medallions,” Waxillium said. “Strap thirty-two to your body, and have all the

abilities.”

“I’m sorry, great Wise One,” Allik said. “You are obviously very knowledgeable about this, and

know things that none of us would ever think to try. How could we be so foolish as to not realize that

we could simply—”

“Shut it,” Waxillium growled.

Allik flinched.

“Doesn’t work?” Waxillium asked.

Allik shook his head. “They interfere with each other.”

“So to create one with multiple powers…”

“You must be very skilled,” Allik said. “More skilled than any who has lived among us. Or…” He

chuckled. “Or you’d have to have all the powers, rather than adding yours to the medallion, then

passing it to another to have it added to! If that were the case, you’d be a great god indeed. As

powerful as the Sovereign.”

 

 

 If you were a Nicrosil Twinborn, I also think it's possible for you to store your Allomantic Investiture into the nicrosilmind - but if you can't get rid of your spiritual identity, you still can't make just about anybody into a Misting. =)

So guys, what do you think? Hope it wasn't too long for my first ever theory (clarification, explanation, whatever). I hope it also made sense to you people. 

Edited February 28, 2016 by Mr. Staccato

[11thorderknight]

I think this is exactly right. The big question for me, though, is whether this is a complete explanation, or a partial one. We know that the term Investiture can refer to a specific "magic" phenomenon - for instance, a Feruchemical or Allomantic ability. However, it also seems to refer to the "raw" power that fuels the phenomenon as well; for example, Stormlight on Roshar, or Breath on Nalthis. We know that this raw power is universal, in that it is capable of fueling any magic in the cosmere, as long as it is properly directed. In BoM VenDell basically states as much when he describes Investiture as being part of someone's Spirit "the way blood is part of your body". 

 

So the question is this: can a Feruchemist store the raw Investiture of a metalmind, then transfer it to a different metalmind, thereby transforming one attribute into another? We know that they can in the RPG, but we're also told the RPG isn't canon, so that may not apply to the books. However, I'd be surprised if Brandon put something that big into the RPG that flatly contradicted what he planned on revealing in the books. 

 

So my guess is that, yes, storage of raw Investiture is possible. I'm guessing that the Southern Scadrians don't have access to this though, since it would require a medallion with at least 3 abilities: one for Nicrosil Feruchemy, and one each for the two attributes being transferred between. We know 3 is their absolute limit, and even these are very rare, so while it's possible they have it, it's certainly not something in widespread use. 

[Mr. Staccato]

Hey, thank so much for this! Actually been hoping somebody would come up to me and tell me whether this was wrong or right - ever since BoM I've been trying to get my loose screws to align just to finally arrive on this conclusion, because, well, Brandon can be confusing at times (but he's still AWESOME). Anyway, yes, I think Nicrosil can also store raw Investiture, but even to arrive on their limited conclusion of these abilities took the Kandra a very long time, along with assorted experiments that required the Terrismen of the North to repopulate, or at least manifest the right abilities.

 

Ferrings at the moment have only a vague sense that they're only storing specific Investiture, but what would the term raw Investiture mean to them anyway? I mean, from their perspective, what they're doing is pretty raw enough already. But I'm getting sidetracked - haha.

 

As for the idea of being able to store Investiture then change the very nature of it while it's in the metalmind, well, it's intriguing but honestly it's a difficult concept to swallow - but I agree with your way of thinking. Brandon's very meticulous about his plans and chances are the description in the MAG are actually canon, but what we're seeing at the moment is, like, only a partial manifestation of this ability because the Feruchemists haven't figured it out how to make it work that way yet.

 

Also there's been some talk about whether an ability like this could transfer BioChromatic Breath or Surgebinding to a Ferring or Misting since it is raw Investiture as well. I believe it's possible but not, er, completely. How do I explain this adequately? Hmm... The metals on Scadrial are only a focus, right? But in some way they are also manifestations of the nature of Investiture present within their universe, and I believe that the Investiture there has the flavour of Harmony. So in a way, this Investiture is also distinct from all other forms of Investiture in the Cosmere because one Shard is different from another.

 

So I believe their concept of raw Investiture is only as raw it pertains to Ruin and Preservation alone. It cannot be rendered raw enough to emulate Surgebinding or Breath because they have their own Identity - that of Honor to Surge and Cultivation for Breath. In order for a Misting to actually gain such an access, they might have to bring with them a Feruchemist to that Shardworld, have him charge up on Connection, deprive himself of Identity, then finally have said Feruchemist provide said Misting with Investiture.  (Too much work.) And by the time they get back to Scadrial, since said Shard is no longer there, the power wonks out of existence. (Whooh! Very long explanation.)

 

Anyway this post is long enough and I'll only leave behind a few questions I'm still not sure about. What happens when you tap Identity? Does it give you twice the Identity then? How in the world does that do? And finally, what do you think about my ideas about Investiture?

[11thorderknight]

I think a Feruchemist could absolutely transfer Investiture from Stormlight or Breath into a metalmind. The catch though is that he would have to have access to that Investiture first. For instance, if a Feruchemist made his way to Roshar somehow, he wouldn't just be able to drain gemstones and use them to fuel Feruchemy, he would first have to form a Nahel Bond to allow him to access Stormlight. If he did that though, he would absolutely be able to use it to fill his other metal minds. Same for Breath - he would have to be given Breath by someone on Nalthis before being able to use it for Feruchemy. 

Edited March 1, 2016 by 11thorderknight

[natc]

I get the impression that storing your powers isn't permanent. Otherwise neither Marasi nor Wax would have lost their fullborn powers. It seems like one of those temporary-buff powers that only weakened you while storing and returned to normal when you stopped.

[Mr. Staccato]

I think a Feruchemist could absolutely transfer Investiture from Stormlight or Breath into a metalmind. The catch though is that he would have to have access to that Investiture first. For instance, if a Feruchemist made his way to Roshar somehow, he wouldn't just be able to drain gemstones and use them to fuel Feruchemy, he would first have to form a Nahel Bond to allow him to access Stormlight. If he did that though, he would absolutely be able to use it to fill his other metal minds. Same for Breath - he would have to be given Breath by someone on Nalthis before being able to use it for Feruchemy.

True, hence the storing Connection part. I can't find the link but WoB states that you need to tap Connection first on a shard world to trick it into thinking you're a native of the planet. On Roshar that probably means you'll get the chance to interact with Spren but you need one to form a Nahel Bond with you first to even be able to store it in the first place. Anyway you look at it though, getting to access that kind of Investiture through Feruchemy is just plain difficult. And it's probably temporary only - though that raises the question what will happen if you compound said Investiture. Imagine - Componding stored Surgebinding! Oh my Ruin! (Wait, that doesn't sound right...)

I get the impression that storing your powers isn't permanent. Otherwise neither Marasi nor Wax would have lost their fullborn powers. It seems like one of those temporary-buff powers that only weakened you while storing and returned to normal when you stopped.

Now that I think about it, that would make sense - otherwise from what Allik said about the Firefathers and Firemothers loaning their Heat Feruchemy in the cold southern lands, they'd probably freeze to death without that access to their abilities. That would be VERY UNPRODUCTIVE.