Vander Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 Why is it strange to agree with me? I do not think the amount of power has to be a criteria to decide as to whether a character is "finished" or not. I also dislike the term "finished" as the only reason I foresee for main characters to vanish out of existence or loose their arc is if they 1) die or 2) the story is actually over. Eh, we seem to disagree on a lot of things. Maybe it's because it's happened more recently. Anyway, I was actually saying the same thing (unless I'm misunderstanding you, that is.) Gaining power should not necessarily mean growth for a character, while conversely topping out in power shouldn't mean that character growth stops. Also, note that I put quotation marks around "done". I meant an end to the "focus" on them, to move on to other characters. By no means should a major character be abandoned like that. Therefore, as long as he is alive, Kaladin will have an arc in the story of that I am convinced. What some readers have been reacting upon is how much place must one single character take into a story planned to last for 10 books. One of the reasons most epic fantasies rely on large cast of characters is to avoid over-powering one over the others and to make a plot lasting over several book forward, you need more than one main actor. If your sole character carries on every plot line, he becomes over-used which is dangerous for plausibility: not everything can/need/should happen to the same character. Since the story requires many characters, you need them to be develop to allow the readers to attach themselves to them. Kaladin, as a character, has been massively used and at the core of most story arcs in WoR. The arcs involving his oaths were both massive, much more so than Shallan's. While they are appreciated by many readers, they creates an imbalance. Rotating who occupies the defining place within the climax would be a welcome change: it helps pushing forward other characters which you need, in the long run. It also removes the predictability of Kaladin's entire arc by giving him other arcs to play with. It also helps the readers develop attachment to other characters. It is a problem currently with the Stormlight Archive, the fact the author needs to announce who are his main characters as, just by reading the book, we can't tell. Who is a main character and who isn't should be obvious when reading a story, apart from Kaladin, Shallan and Dalinar, it isn't obvious with SA. It is somewhat very strange. For sure. That is actually my main reason: in my previous post, I was merely trying to counter what Muco said. I won't lie and say I don't want Kal gone for other reasons, (refer to: "What's With all the Kaladin Love?") but I think more screen time for ANY other character (well, except Shallan, I guess...) would be welcome indeed. I usually love the "one-protagonist" thing, but in SLR there are simply too many interesting characters to just love one. (Also, I want more Szeth time. ) In any case, I think we're on the same page, just a bit off on communication.
muco Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 Good arguments all around. Let me put it this way. kaladin is developed as character for a 'reason'. The development we are seeing for Kaladin is very different to some one like Adolin for very obvious reasons. Until 'reason' for Kaladin's development is revealed, it does not make sense to kill him. I am not saying it won't happen like you said it would, it very well might. As a reader, all I am seeing is Kaladin's development. If he is killed, I will be left thinking 'why was developed for?' Any development arc shows in books must lead to after development acts and finally the end, which could be death. What is the after-development act for Kaladin?
DreamEternal Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) Any development arc shows in books must lead to after development acts and finally the end, which could be death. What is the after-development act for Kaladin? Meeting his parents, confronting Amaram and Moash, and saying his other Oaths. Of which, only the ones about his parents and Amaram are deeply personal and linked to the core his narrative.The Amaram one has already been thread upon, with Dalinar forsaking his friendship to him, and as far as we know the Sons of Honor are not an immediate threat yet. Meeting his parents can be resolved rather quickly, if done right. Moash is basically a minor plot point, and the riots on Kholinar feel like something less conected to the core of his story, even if full of opportunities for struggle. I think we are in a good enough place to slowly remove Kaladin from the spotlight, as those things are dealt with, considering how other characters are facing things that are deeply personal, or can show us important events and different cultures and nations that our Alethi main cast can't. The Desolations were supposed to almost destroy the whole world, some rotation of PoVs can help show that, instead of it being how the end of the world affects a couple of characters. Edited February 25, 2016 by DreamEternal
Guest Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 Eh, we seem to disagree on a lot of things. Maybe it's because it's happened more recently. Bah simply because we disagree on a few things doesn't mean we can't agree on others. Anyway, I was actually saying the same thing (unless I'm misunderstanding you, that is.) Gaining power should not necessarily mean growth for a character, while conversely topping out in power shouldn't mean that character growth stops. Also, note that I put quotation marks around "done". I meant an end to the "focus" on them, to move on to other characters. By no means should a major character be abandoned like that. For sure. That is actually my main reason: in my previous post, I was merely trying to counter what Muco said. I won't lie and say I don't want Kal gone for other reasons, (refer to: "What's With all the Kaladin Love?") but I think more screen time for ANY other character (well, except Shallan, I guess...) would be welcome indeed. I usually love the "one-protagonist" thing, but in SLR there are simply too many interesting characters to just love one. (Also, I want more Szeth time. ) In any case, I think we're on the same page, just a bit off on communication. I think we are essentially saying the same thing, minus one or two minor details. I agree a character should not be abandoned simply because he has reached the rank of full Radiant. I also believe such character can still have a satisfying arc within the story. I personally am not too keen on the single-POV story. It needs to truly have a compelling fascinating character for me to be drawn into those. Most of the times, I will get terribly annoyed at this one character, thinking everyone else in the background appears more interesting than the "hero" which is another problem I currently have in my readings: no matter which book I pick up, I never seem to like the character I am supposed to like. This however is a separate issue which has nothing to do with SA. As a reader, all I am seeing is Kaladin's development. If he is killed, I will be left thinking 'why was developed for?' Any development arc shows in books must lead to after development acts and finally the end, which could be death. What is the after-development act for Kaladin? Why were Kelsier, Vin and Elend developed for? Truth is death of a character sometimes is the best way to move a story forward. I am not saying this to state Kaladin should die, I am simply stating it to explain a character dying does not mean his development was for nothing. Kaladin could die so others could live and it would work within his growth: make the ultimate sacrifice. Give his life to protect others, realize to kill to protect may mean yourself. Death doesn't nullify character development, not if it is well done. However if Kaladin were to trip and break his neck in Chapter 1 of Book 3, then yes I would agree he was developed for apparently "nothing". What is the after development arc for Kaladin? Sincerely, I have no idea.
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