Gagylpus Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I wasn't sure where to put this because there are half a dozen topics about the medallions... so here is another one! It's been recognized that based on the information we have, the medallions shouldn't work. The unkeyed goldmind that Wax and co find is only usable by Wayne, since he is already a gold ferring. So the medallions, which are described as unkeyed metalminds (we've seen iron, brass, copper, and duralumin, not counting the Bands themselves) combined with an unkeyed nicrosilmind containing the ability to tap/fill the metalminds in question. The medallions are said to work by tapping the unkeyed nicrosilmind, granting the ability to tap/fill the other metalminds, which are then used. However, since the unkeyed goldmind is only usable by someone who is already a gold ferring, the unkeyed nicrosilmind of a medallion should only be usable by a nicrosil ferring. So why can anyone use the medallions? My theory (which is not without its problems, see below) is (1) that each medallion actually contains another nicrosilmind: one filled with the ability to tap/fill nicrosil itself, and (2) that everyone native to Scadrial, by virtue of their innate investiture, is just a tiny bit of a feruchemist for every metal. Point (2) is unnoticeable in virtually every circumstance, because the rate that a normal non-feruchemist can store or tap in any metalmind is so miniscule. However, under my theory, anyone could tap just a tiny amount from any unkeyed metalmind. In particular, they could tap a tiny amount from the nicrosilmind containing feruchemical nicrosil ability that I posit in point (1). But that would allow them to further tap from the nicrosilmind, leading to a positive feedback loop until they have the ability of a normal nicrosil ferring. Then they would be able to tap the investiture of the other nicrosilminds, giving them the abilities bestowed by the medallion. The main problem with this theory is that the process would have to be unconscious to match what is described in the books, whereas feruchemy is generally described to require conscious intent. So there might be something entirely different going on. However, there is obvious precedent in the books for allomancy being used unconsciously, so it is possible that it could happen for feruchemy as well. Furthermore, when the medallions are being used, for example when Marasi is storing weight, the supposed initial process of tapping a nicrosilmind filled with feruchemical iron ability is not described. Perhaps (3) the ease of unconsciously using feruchemical nicrosil is also due to the innate investiture of Scadrial natives, seeking out more of its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I believe that it is a critical function of nicrosil Feruchemy that someone without Nicrosil Feruchemy be able to access them (assuming blank Identity, of course) because you could store your Feruchemy in a piece of nicrosil accidentally and never be able to get it back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Since Wax didn't stay all-powerful, presumably the Bands granted temporary, compressible power that could run out instead of simply putting power into you. Fitting with the pattern of other attributes of that behavior, like weight and speed, your feruchemy abilities should return to normal when the storing stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFencer Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Maybe medallions give you a positive feedback loop until you go above the levels of a "normal" Metalborn, at which point it starts running out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagylpus Posted March 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 I believe that it is a critical function of nicrosil Feruchemy that someone without Nicrosil Feruchemy be able to access them (assuming blank Identity, of course) because you could store your Feruchemy in a piece of nicrosil accidentally and never be able to get it back. I don't think that nicrosil feruchemy works quite the way you describe it, as natc points out: the reserves of Investiture in the Bands was finite and were specifically noted by Wax to be gradually depleting as he used the Bands. So if you are storing the Investiture of feruchemical nicrosil ability in a nicrosilmind, your feruchemical nicrosil ability is only reduced while storing it. (This creates another conundrum, since storing f.nicrosil should make you unable to store f.nicrosil - so it is probably impossible to store it completely.) But you would still have your full ability whenever you were not storing it; tapping it would just make you stronger. (It isn't completely certain what feruchemical strength is, either. I believe it is a combination of reduced losses from drawing lots of attribute at once, ability to store a greater amount of attribute in a given piece of metal, and greater maximum store and tap rates, but that is just my theory.) In any case f.nicrosil seems to work like pretty much every other feruchemical ability except for copper (and perhaps cadmium and bendalloy) - it makes you weaker while storing in order to make you stronger while tapping, rather than totally removing the ability upon storing and only returning it upon tapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I remember a WoB that ask exactly if the "Medallion works alone with the Blanck Identity trick and how you may tap Nicrosil without being a Soulbearer". The answer was something like "the Creators of the Medallions know some other tricks" therefore probably we have some missing information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 He said there is a specific hack they used to make the medallions work, which will be revealed in a later book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Kandra Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 I wonder if they're messing with the Identity of the object somehow (making it think that it doesn't belong to anyone) instead of messing with their own Identity (i.e., that of a Soulbearer). How they would do that is beyond me, but because everything in the cosmere seems to have a soul and therefore some kind of Identity, if you could make an object think it has no owner or that anyone who realizes it's a metalmind can use it (this, at the very least, is a requirement) then you can make a metalmind "anyone" can use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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