[BoM] That power source

[Darkarma he/him]

Well it makes you wonder if the FTL requirements for space-faring Scadrial society uses Francium to power their ships as it is the ultimate Alkali metal.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Darkarma

[VoltCruelerz he/him]

Well it makes you wonder if the FTL requirements for space-faring Scadrial society uses Francium to power their ships as it is the ultimate Alkali metal.

No, I think their ships will just work in three stages:

 

1. Conventional reaction-mass rocket to accelerate to some arbitrary speed toward its target

2. Yank the mass out of the rocket to hurl it along at 99.99...% the speed of light

3. Start bendalloy hopping

[Darkarma he/him]

No, I think their ships will just work in three stages:

 

1. Conventional reaction-mass rocket to accelerate to some arbitrary speed toward its target

2. Yank the mass out of the rocket to hurl it along at 99.99...% the speed of light

3. Start bendalloy hopping

I didn't mean the only thing. But the ships do seem to use alkali metals as an actual power source.

[VoltCruelerz he/him]

I didn't mean the only thing. But the ships do seem to use alkali metals as an actual power source.

Based on what, that they explode on contact with water?  Why couldn't Uranium (see Chernobyl), Harmonium (it's magic), or metallic Hydrogen (contact with water might release a cloud of very hot hydrogen gas that would burn the moment it touches the air).  On top of that, they handle it several times without gloves or suspension in oil.  You don't do that with alkali metals.  It also doesn't seem to instantly oxidize on contact with the air.

[Ari he/him]

I've been thinking about this,  with how they made bombs out of the stuff as well,  and considered them quite destructive.  It can't be a group 1 metal for this.  It has to be something else as these metals do explode in water,  however the explosion is quite weak compared to any other explosive.  Primitive TNT is better.  This makes the ending of the book questionable if ettmetal is a group 1 metal.

 

That depends if the bomb is conventional or magical in nature, of course. But if the bomb is conventional that does make a good argument for it being something like Uranium.

 

 

Technically, anything below Potassium "explodes" in water, and I highly doubt Ettmetal is Cesium, considering Cesium burns upon contact with water vapour in the air. I think potential candidates are Potassium or Sodium. These two due to their abundance in the crust. (The flying pontoons had a lot of the Ettmetal in them)

 

Thanks for the more detailed Chemistry! I'm by no means an expert lol.

 

 

I was wondering if rather than a Metal, it's an actual solid form of Investiture itself, somewhat like Stormlight on Roshar?

An Allomancer 'burns' a Metal allowing her to access the Investiture of Allomancy. What if Ettmetal is a physical piece of this Investiture, it would then explain how devices are then fueled by it. I would then presume the runes and etchings on devices would be some sort of Focus, working similarly to AonDor, causing the Investiture to copy the Intent/vibrations that the Allomancer causes?

 

Just because they call it a Metal, doesn't mean it necesseraly is - Although equally it could be Harmony's Metal I suppose.

 

Atium, Lerasium, and presumably Harmonium are all solid forms of Investiture. There's a reason Atium seems to be almost exclusively used for violence- it's metallic Ruin. They're all also metals. It's valid that Lerasium or Harmonium could be ettmetal, although I imagine Lerasium and Atium would translate using the Connection medallion. Harmonium possibly wouldn't, as the Basin is still asking if it even exists. But likewise, they probably don't have a word for Uranium, either.

[yafeshan he/him]

I do not think ettmetal necessarily should be an allomantic metal. I believe it is the solution Rashek gave to southern scadrians. We know from a WoB that they had a different solution to survive in Last Empire era. We still do not know what it is, may be it is this metal rashek designed for them. May be he left a ettmetal burning machine to keep them alive in south. They possibly did not have allomancers to make it work any other way so could not develop it until spook/kelsier/marsh came to save them from ice.

 

Ettmetal possibly can not be burned by and mistborn or used by a full ferruchemist. It mimics the power and somehow get some investiture to use it further.

[Senor Feesh]

And I though it would be a good idea to mount an allomantic particle beam on a Chasmfiend (totally could work), so clearly by judgement can be trusted.

 

Don't cross the streams!

[Ari he/him]

I do not think ettmetal necessarily should be an allomantic metal. I believe it is the solution Rashek gave to southern scadrians. We know from a WoB that they had a different solution to survive in Last Empire era. We still do not know what it is, may be it is this metal rashek designed for them. May be he left a ettmetal burning machine to keep them alive in south. They possibly did not have allomancers to make it work any other way so could not develop it until spook/kelsier/marsh came to save them from ice.

 

Ettmetal possibly can not be burned by and mistborn or used by a full ferruchemist. It mimics the power and somehow get some investiture to use it further.

 

Even if Ettmetal is not one of the metals used directly in the Metallic Arts as practised by Allomancers and Feruchemists, it's still an "allomantic metal" in that it can power Allomancy.

[Pechvarry]

A) Pretty sure there are several compounds (as opposed to pure elements) which explode in water.  All the ones I know of are horrifying to be around even without the water, though.

 

I've been thinking about Ettmetal as an artificial stomach.  Its job is to metabolize, so it's probably laced with the 16 other metals throughout.

 

I guess I imagine the cube as a device with Identity on some sort of capacitor so it can copy then immediately tap an allomancer's identity.  That's stage one.  Then stage two would be like a car battery of Connection (to Preservation/Harmony) and Investiture so it has a power and a shape and pass codes granted by user.  All of that uses the Ettmetal to metabolize, which probably burns some Investiture and Connection to refill the car battery.

 

But it's actually pretty bewildering.

[duladen he/him]

saz/ces ium.

its almost genius.

Cesium is pretty much the only alkali metal that EXPLODES in water to rather than just burns.

These are my thoughts EXACTLY. +1 to you!

Edited February 2, 2016 by duladen

[Oathbringer he/him]

It's definitely not lerasium--otherwise there would be hordes of mist born! Yes it could just be an alkaline, but there is always another secret  . Harmony could've helped out the one-eye spike man (probably Kelsier) with something new...

[ccstat he/him]

I am pretty confident that ettmetal is a group-1 element. The objections in this thread that such a metal isn't capable of destroying a city seem misdirected to me. I'll need to go back and find the quote (I bought the paper copy this time) but I'm pretty sure that Suit's statement was about being disappointed because "we [the Set] needed city-destroying bombs." I don't believe it is ever claimed that ettmetal has that ability, only that the Set wanted it to. It is asserted that the Hunter expedition brought bombs capable of destroying the temple, but that is an entirely different destructive scale.

[skaa he/him]

@ccstat is correct.

The creature reached into its pocket and removed a device like a small package wrapped in wires. One of Irich’s early attempts at creating an explosive device from the metal that powered the airships. It had proven ineffective, barely more explosive than dynamite, when they needed something that could end cities.

So, which group-1 element explodes with a power comparable to dynamite when in contact with water?

Edited February 2, 2016 by skaa

[DreamEternal]

@ccstat is correct.

So, which group-1 element explodes with a power comparable to dynamite when in contact with water?

Not necesarily in contact with water, but in bombs made especificaly to release as much energy as possible. The explosion in contact with water could be much weaker than dynamite.

[Full Metal Rithmatist]

@ccstat is correct.

So, which group-1 element explodes with a power comparable to dynamite when in contact with water?

chucking cesium in water can be comparable to a small explosive,

Franicum could probably blow a room apart but its so unstable it pretty much cant exist.

[ccstat he/him]

According to this page, the energy output per mole isn't terribly different for the different metals: the increasing violence as you go down the group is due to the speed of the reaction. That is why powdered sodium metal can spontaneously explode in conditions where the bulk metal will "calmly" burn. I don't have the expertise to know how the formulation of an explosive relates to its power, but I would guess that the reaction enthalpy is a good measure of maximum achievable yield. (Please correct me if I'm making unfounded assumptions.)

In a reaction with water (resulting in both peroxide and hydrogen gas, which contribute to the explosion), you get these figures (rounded):

Metal__kJ/mol__kJ/g___yield relative to dynamite

Li_____222_____32_______425%

Na_____184______8_______105%

K______196______5________65%

Rb_____195______2.3______30%

Cs_____203______1.5______20%

For purposes of explosive yield comparison, dynamite gives about 7.5 kJ/g. Using that figure, and assuming that Irich's device was a maximally effective water+metal explosion, you get pretty equivalent weight-for-weight yield out of sodium as you do from dynamite. Lithium has more energy per mass, and the heavier metals have less.

That's clearly not definitive, though, since water isn't nearly the best oxidizer you can putin an explosive. Someone who knows what they are doing could probably coax much higher energies out all of these. I suspect that the characteristics described (doesn't explode immediately in air but does in water) are the best clue.

My (unfounded) suspicion is that whatever the identity of ettmetal that they use, other group 1 metals would also work as substitute.

[Bremen]

That is why powdered sodium metal can spontaneously explode in conditions where the bulk metal will "calmly" burn.

Bulk metal will explode, the reason it often doesn't is because it forms an oxide skin when in contact with air.  This skin acts as a barrier, slowing the reaction.

 

Also wrt making bombs, lithium can be used as a fuel in hydrogen bombs... although I obviously doubt The Set is doing that (I hope).