fyodor Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 At the end of HOA Sazed manipulates the bodies of the North Scadrialians so they can survive in the new atmosphere. Kind of jerky of him not to do the same for the S. Scadrialians.
natc Posted February 2, 2016 Author Posted February 2, 2016 Because this "new" atmosphere is just the atmosphere before the World of Ash. Sazed merely fixed them to be like what humans were originally, as they were modified before by TLR. As the South was an unmodified backup he has nothing to fix in terms of respiratory systems, organ structure, etc. The temperature thing seems to be something else entirely compared to biology, because the coppermind of the Sovereign suggests that they were freezing up in what is actually a perfectly mild temperature that at most might be on the somewhat chilly side.
emailanimal he/him Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 The temperature thing seems to be something else entirely compared to biology, because the coppermind of the Sovereign suggests that they were freezing up in what is actually a perfectly mild temperature that at most might be on the somewhat chilly side. Take a village from somewhere in South Sudan, or Tamil Nadu. Move the village - inhabitants, buildings, housewares, clothing etc. to the vicinity of Murmansk and freeze the time to be early March (or late November) forever. Count how long the villagers will survive. (also minimize their access to wood). The reason why people can live in Arctic regions is change of season - even during short summers, it is still possible to prepare for the long winters, not succumb to scurvy, and have enough firewood/coal. Also - 1000 years of burning ettmetal - that's A LOT of ettmetal. An argument can be made that Rashek got ettmetal (nee sodium) from table salt, but I am dubious.
Bremen Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 Take a village from somewhere in South Sudan, or Tamil Nadu. Move the village - inhabitants, buildings, housewares, clothing etc. to the vicinity of Murmansk and freeze the time to be early March (or late November) forever. Count how long the villagers will survive. (also minimize their access to wood). I work with a guy from South Sudan, I can confirm that he thinks it is cold out no matter the temperature. Although there must be something else going on, otherwise you would expect the descendants of the survivors to be acclimated to the current temperatures.
skaa he/him Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) I work with a guy from South Sudan, I can confirm that he thinks it is cold out no matter the temperature. Although there must be something else going on, otherwise you would expect the descendants of the survivors to be acclimated to the current temperatures. How long has your coworker been living where you live? The Southerners (barely) survived ten years before the Sovereign arrived. Ten years does seem way too long for them to still not be used to the (ostensibly mild) cold, but I don't really have a point of comparison. Also - 1000 years of burning ettmetal - that's A LOT of ettmetal. An argument can be made that Rashek got ettmetal (nee sodium) from table salt, but I am dubious. While Allik does imply that ettmetal burns while mimicking Allomancy (e.g. when operating a Southerner airship) I think it's a perfectly reasonable to speculate that it doesn't burn when mimicking Feruchemical storage. Edited February 2, 2016 by skaa
DreamEternal Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 How long has your coworker been living where you live? The Southerners (barely) survived ten years before the Sovereign arrived. Ten years does seem way too long for them to still not be used to the (ostensibly mild) cold, but I don't really have a point of comparison. The problem is not the ten years. It is the three hundred years after they were saved, yet still couldn't adapt. If it isn't a biological limitation, it is a Realmatic change, and as far as we know Rashek wanted to avoid both.
The Ninja Yodeler he/him Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 The problem is not the ten years. It is the three hundred years after they were saved, yet still couldn't adapt. If it isn't a biological limitation, it is a Realmatic change, and as far as we know Rashek wanted to avoid both. Pretty sure their bodies had no need to adapt because of the medallions. Stopped people who couldn't adapt from dieing off. Also halted any genetic advancement for those who could adapt(over generations obviously). 1
DreamEternal Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Pretty sure their bodies had no need to adapt because of the medallions. Stopped people who couldn't adapt from dieing off. Also halted any genetic advancement for those who could adapt(over generations obviously).That is not what I mean. If they were biologically normal humans, they only would need to adapt their clothing and habits to survive slightly cold weather, instead of freezing without the medallions.The point is, they aren't biologically normal Scadrian humans, but were meant to be. So what the rust went wrong? Edited February 2, 2016 by DreamEternal
The Ninja Yodeler he/him Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) That is not what I mean. If they were biologically normal humans, they only would need to adapt their clothing and habits to survive slightly cold weather, instead of freezing without the medallions. The point is, they aren't biologically normal Scadrian humans, but were meant to be. So what the rust went wrong? I don't think anything went wrong. I think after TLR death, and the Catacendre, Sazed changes those in the Basin back to "normal". Pretty sure it was said TLR made no biological changes to the SoScads, so over generations(and I'm sure plenty of deaths) they acclimated. I'm going with Scadrials axis and rotation around the sun as being why it was a bit easier for them to acclimate without bio alteration and ash mounts(not at all certain though). After Saz " fixed" things, he sent the Sovereign down to lend a hand(that's a guess as well, but why would Saz just let them die?). And because of said hand lending, the adaptation that was almost certain to happen, didn't(almost certain because they really could have all died. It was definitely a possibility). Plus, if I dropped you into what you would call a frozen wasteland, I doubt extra clothing is going to save you for long. And changing habits on the fly, after what seems to be a world ending event, probably not the easiest thing to do. Or to convince a whole culture of people to do. But, I think they could have done it if not for those meddling gods. Edited February 2, 2016 by The Ninja Yodeler
DreamEternal Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 Plus, if I dropped you into what you would call a frozen wasteland, I doubt extra clothing is going to save you for long. The point is: why is slightly cold weather a frozen wasteland for them? Did nafural selection over a thousand years change them so much, or is there something else at work here? I don't think it took long enough to be something explained only by evolution, but I am no expert.
emailanimal he/him Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 I work with a guy from South Sudan, I can confirm that he thinks it is cold out no matter the temperature. Although there must be something else going on, otherwise you would expect the descendants of the survivors to be acclimated to the current temperatures. They are acclimated much better. Allik was able to withstand prolonged cold with only a visible inconvenience. But they also rely on personal heating devices a lot.
The Ninja Yodeler he/him Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 The point is: why is slightly cold weather a frozen wasteland for them? Did nafural selection over a thousand years change them so much, or is there something else at work here? I don't think it took long enough to be something explained only by evolution, but I am no expert. I would say it depends on how much they had to adapt originally in that thousand year span of TFE. I'm guessing they just run hotter because their body temps had to adapt to not fry their brains during TFE. I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure bodies that run hotter don't feel the cold less, they feel it more intensely. Especially if their bodies stopped storing normal amounts of fat to shed heat faster. Just look at what happened to Allik on the mountain. He basically becomes hypothermic almost immediately. While Steris is fine by comparison. I'm still confused as to how they survived the original planet shifting that Rashek did, especially with no biological alterations. I'm not certain of any of this either lol. I think if the change from Sazed wasn't so sudden, they would have mostly been fine. But idk. Just spitballin.
natc Posted February 3, 2016 Author Posted February 3, 2016 You know, considering what the handholding did to the Basin's development (or lack thereof) I actually would not be entirely surprised if Sazed seriously intended them to just die for a bit.
The Ninja Yodeler he/him Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 You know, considering what the handholding did to the Basin's development (or lack thereof) I actually would not be entirely surprised if Sazed seriously intended them to just die for a bit. Yeah, I agree. Or maybe it was the balance of preservation & ruin or something like that. One culture has a real chance of death, while the other is altered and preserved in an Eden of sorts. I guess thats harmonious. Or maybe Saz sent Sovereign, like he sent Wax to stop the Set? Idk.
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