The Thrill

[Weltall]

Everyone wants Adolin to be an Edgedancer. Why not a Dustbringer? I get that his sword belonged to an Edgedancer, but...

 

Probably because he seems to be the most likely person to revive a dead Shardblade (if anyone does it) which means he'd need to swear the Edgedancer oaths. Though we do have that WoB that the Dustbringers are one of the orders that would have been cool with his actions in WoR and what little we know of them seems to fit his personality so... I could see that one going either way.

[+Wax he/him]

Probably because he seems to be the most likely person to revive a dead Shardblade (if anyone does it) which means he'd need to swear the Edgedancer oaths. Though we do have that WoB that the Dustbringers are one of the orders that would have been cool with his actions in WoR and what little we know of them seems to fit his personality so... I could see that one going either way.

The thing is the edge dancer vows don't sit in my mind with the picture of Adolin. " I will remember those who have been forgotten" - is the second vow uttered. One of the words of radiance (in book) reference also notes edge dancers being eloquent or good with words. Just not Adolin.

Dustbringers oaths might be more along he lines of "I will destroy..." Or "I will fight..."

More fitting with Adolin the duelling champion.

The edge dancer sword is a red herring in my mind. Or a plot device.

[maxal she/her]

The thing is the edge dancer vows don't sit in my mind with the picture of Adolin. " I will remember those who have been forgotten" - is the second vow uttered. One of the words of radiance (in book) reference also notes edge dancers being eloquent or good with words. Just not Adolin.

Dustbringers oaths might be more along he lines of "I will destroy..." Or "I will fight..."

More fitting with Adolin the duelling champion.

The edge dancer sword is a red herring in my mind. Or a plot device.

 

Edgedancers are defined as refined, elegant deadly fighters riding the battlefield on ribbon of winds. If any order were duelists, surely it was the Edgedancers. I do not recall reading they were supposed to be good with words, but I'd point out Lift certainly doesn't fit the classic portrayal of the Edgedancers. We must thus take and leave when it comes to those reference taken from in-world WoR as I doubt all knights from a given order were clones of each other.

 

Now where could Adolin fit as an Edgedancer?

 

Several points, but the first one I need to make is you can't ask Adolin, who isn't a proto-Radiant, to be the living embodiment of the second oath to a given order. Kaladin certainly wasn't the living embodiment of his Radiant oaths prior to having progress far enough to mean them. You can't therefore expect to find a clear and precise correlation between Adolin's action and the second oath to the Edgedancers. What we must look for therefore is potential. Is this an oath Adolin would be able to learn and maintain?

 

Let's see...

 

Back in WoK, Adolin is the only character we see being overly concerned about the 50 deaths following the chasmfiend hunt. He is clearly disturbed by it, annoyed by Elhokar's lack of concern and works long hour to oversee the clean-up while muttering these were good men, good friends. 

 

Later on, he stumbles on a prostitute, a human being so low in station most lighteyes of his rank wouldn't even bother to loo twice, being molested by a man. He is within an enemy camp where he has no authority and while nobody sees fit to intervene, he steps in. To help for no other reason it was the right thing to do. 

 

Early in WoR, Adolin talks to his Blade. He claims he doesn't know the right name for it, he feels it is alive and he treats it as a partner as opposed to a mere tool. He tries to honor its memory.

 

In the same chapter, he holds onto "mother's necklace" as a good luck charm which he is adamant is more than "silly superstitions". He truly believes in those and is ill-at-ease without his little routine. He is keen on keeping a memento from his dead mother.

 

As we move forward, we also witness Adolin being clearly disturbed by the soldiers who died at the Tower. Nobody expresses any particular thoughts for the fallen, except Adolin who promptly remembers the name of several of those men, good men, good friends. He refuses to move on: these deaths were avoidable. 

 

Later on, while Kaladin is left to rot in prison, alone and forgotten, Adolin sits in for him. He does not forget what Kaladin has done for him and he basically "goes on strike" to prove his point. Elhokar may be content to forget everything about the man he threw in prison, but Adolin won't allow him by locking himself up, for weeks, into a prison, thus depriving the princedom of his very valuable aid.

 

That's 6 separate non-correlated events where we see Adolin exhibiting the following traits: compassion, care and a strong desire to "make things right" for others. Genuinely. Simply because he cares to do so. Each time, he chose to act on the behalf of someone who has been "forgotten" for the time being: dead soldiers, a prostitute, Kaladin, the spren entrapped into his Blade.

 

Also, we could note that each time Adolin takes on a fight, he never does it for himself or to destroy evil or just to fight: each time he does on someone else's behalf. The 4 on 1 duel? It was for Dalinar, for his plan, his own desire to be named dueling champion passing as dead last in his sources of motivation. His refusal to yield? To protect Renarin, plain and simple. 

 

In the scope of this particular topic, I'd also argue starting to tremble enough to make him drop his Blade when he realizes he is a monster clad in blue towards the end does not sit well with "I will fight" or "I will destroy evil". The singers were about to raise a terrible storm and no matter how innocent they may be, they still needed killing: this knowledge was not enough to protect Adolin from the absence of the Thrill: he basically loses it right in the middle of the battlefield.

 

He just isn't a warrior. He became one due to necessity, but blood-lust and fights are not his driving motto.

[shadowwisp]

Not arguing your point but here is source for Edgedancers being eloquent speakers

“When Simol was informed of the arrival of the Edgedancers, a concealed consternation and terror, as is common in such cases, fell upon him; although they were not the most demanding of orders, their graceful, limber movements hid a deadliness that was, by this time, quite renowned; also, they were the most articulate and refined of the Radiants. ”

—Words of Radiance, chapter 20, page 12

Also here is a quote by "Darkness" about the Edgedancers:
“Yes. It is unfortunate they were always so concerned with small-minded things, while ignoring those of greater import. It appears you share their temperament. You have become one of them.”

It does kinda sound like Adolin hahaha

[maxal she/her]

Not arguing your point but here is source for Edgedancers being eloquent speakers

“When Simol was informed of the arrival of the Edgedancers, a concealed consternation and terror, as is common in such cases, fell upon him; although they were not the most demanding of orders, their graceful, limber movements hid a deadliness that was, by this time, quite renowned; also, they were the most articulate and refined of the Radiants. ”

—Words of Radiance, chapter 20, page 12

Also here is a quote by "Darkness" about the Edgedancers:

“Yes. It is unfortunate they were always so concerned with small-minded things, while ignoring those of greater import. It appears you share their temperament. You have become one of them.”

It does kinda sound like Adolin hahaha

 

That's the one I remembered. I'd argue articulate isn't the same as eloquent: articulate implies the ability to speak fluently and coherently which Adolin is perfectly able to do. He's a pretty get down to the point kinda of guy, but he doesn't think before he speaks, hence he isn't very eloquent nor persuasive and has a tendency to stick his foot into his mouth. 

 

I'd also say Adolin speaks up quite a lot, always voicing his opinion out loud. Even Dalinar comments, back in WoK, over the fact his eldest son always has something to say about everything and always argued with him about it. He is surprised when Adolin fails to challenge him at some point and he is downright routed out when Adolin stops fighting him to just agree with him. 

 

So huh, he's mouthy. Based on what little we know, it seems right within the Edgedancers alley.

[+Wax he/him]

@maxal - I can see your logic regarding Adolin being an edgedancer.

I would love to be able to compare the two personalities, but we don't have any major data of note on dustbringers.

So, other than saying, "Adolin isn't Lift or not like her", there are limits to comparative evidence.

I will say that other than Lopen, all new radiants have been from a different order. Adolin is a major character, and just from an author's perspective, it might be more intriguing to land him in a completely different radiant profile.

Articulate

1.

having or showing the ability to speak fluently and coherently.

"she was not very articulate"

synonyms: eloquent, fluent, communicative, effective, persuasive, coherent, lucid, vivid, expressive, silver-tongued, vocal; More

I checked the dictionary, and practically most people would be considered articulate.

However, I can say that dustbringers suggest a violent/explosive temper (in my mind), and Adolin has loads of it, given WoR ending.

Edited January 24, 2016 by axcellence

[DreamEternal]

I will say that other than Lopen, all new radiants have been from a different order.

Lopen is not a Radiant. He and others from Bridge Four are Squires, people who gain the ability to breath stormlight throught their bond to a Radiant.

[+Wax he/him]

Lopen is not a Radiant. He and others from Bridge Four are Squires, people who gain the ability to breath stormlight throught their bond to a Radiant.

Thanks, I meant a squire in the first place, just didn't remember the right word.

[maxal she/her]

@maxal - I can see your logic regarding Adolin being an edgedancer.

I would love to be able to compare the two personalities, but we don't have any major data of note on dustbringers.

So, other than saying, "Adolin isn't Lift or not like her", there are limits to comparative evidence.

I will say that other than Lopen, all new radiants have been from a different order. Adolin is a major character, and just from an author's perspective, it might be more intriguing to land him in a completely different radiant profile.

Articulate

1.

having or showing the ability to speak fluently and coherently.

"she was not very articulate"

synonyms: eloquent, fluent, communicative, effective, persuasive, coherent, lucid, vivid, expressive, silver-tongued, vocal; More

I checked the dictionary, and practically most people would be considered articulate.

However, I can say that dustbringers suggest a violent/explosive temper (in my mind), and Adolin has loads of it, given WoR ending.

 

Adolin isn't one of the main character within the Stormlight Archive. He isn't one of the characters Brandon has chosen to articulate the story around. As a result, he won't be the focus character of any order: if he becomes a Radiant, he will be a secondary focus. In fact, Adolin is not a planned character so there are certain things we can rate out of his character arc.

 

Dustbringers are an order Brandon confirmed we would have to wait until one becomes a main character to hear more about it. Adolin is never becoming a main character, so it can't be him. Now it does not preclude him from becoming a Radiant, but it also implies he will not start to swear Dustbringer oaths until this main character comes around. Besides, if Adolin, an already important character into the story, were to become one, Brandon would have given a different answer.

 

I'd also say Adolin is too afraid to be the living embodiment of bravery: he fears for his family. He is explosive, but not in a fool-hardy way: he just gets very impulsive when dwindling too hard onto the emotional side.

 

I am personally gunning for the Blade revival arc: it is exactly the kind of special arc Brandon could craft for a character he didn't intend to write. It has tremendous potential both in terms of character development and realm related stuff as I suspect many readers who don't specifically like Adolin will still be interested in reading about the process. It likely will not bear any significance to the end climax, but it is a cool arc to have within the story. Depending on how well it is explored, it could even become a fan's favorite.

 

I should also mention the interest of having Adolin mirror Lift as both character as so different from each other: that would be interesting as well.

 

I have check the definition of articulate before I wrote my previous post. Based on it, I'd say Adolin can fit into this mold. I'd also keep on arguing these are mere guidelines: Cultivationspren are looking for individuals able to care before they are able to be eloquent. 

[kaellok he/him]

I'd also say Adolin is too afraid to be the living embodiment of bravery: he fears for his family. He is explosive, but not in a fool-hardy way: he just gets very impulsive when dwindling too hard onto the emotional side.

Super-pedant powers, activate!

 

Bravery has nothing at all to do with not being afraid/scared.  Bravery is entirely acting despite or because of that fear.  I know a lot of people who have acted bravely that were terrified the entire time.  I've known people that acted bravely and were terrified after.  I've never known of someone to be in a terrifying situation and feel no fear regarding it at all--and, were I to find one, I'd think they were a sociopath.

 

So I absolutely disagree with Adolin being too afraid to be the living embodiment of bravery.  He fits it rather perfectly.

 

I also think that even though Adolin may not be a major character, he is certainly important.  His story is likely as important within the confines of the Stormlight Archive as Hoid's is.  It might be the same sort of tangential that helps to shape the overall picture that Hoid will likely have (ie, no Hoid = no Kaladin the Radiant is pretty storming self-evident to me).  He has POV in every book so far, after all.  And the strong bonds he has with his family would allow for some really interesting/powerful storytelling.  Like, what if the Renarin-flashback book has Adolin as the primary POV character?

 

And to respond to Axcellence's post on first page:

 

 

I think it's interesting that the thrill affects some and not others. In the fight between Adolin and Eshonai, Adolin is not affected but Eshonai is clearly taken over. Someone else can maybe provide the direct quote from WoR.

 

WOB from first page says:

 

 

In addition, being very close to something tied to Honor reduces the effects of things like the Thrill.

 

I'd say wielding a Shardblade and full Shardplate in single combat against the Enemy (capital E enemy there, the one it was literally made to fight) might be part of why he didn't feel the Thrill.  I'd be very curious about whether other Sharderbearers in this battle felt the Thrill or not, and how strongly.

Edited January 27, 2016 by kaellok

[+Wax he/him]

 

And to respond to Axcellence's post on first page:

 

 

WOB from first page says:

 

 

I'd say wielding a Shardblade and full Shardplate in single combat against the Enemy (capital E enemy there, the one it was literally made to fight) might be part of why he didn't feel the Thrill.  I'd be very curious about whether other Sharderbearers in this battle felt the Thrill or not, and how strongly.

 

Well - Eshonai felt the thrill in the battle with Adolin.  Even earlier, even Dalinar used to feel the thrill wielding the shardblade right until the end of WoK. 

[maxal she/her]

Super-pedant powers, activate!

 

     Love this.

 

 

Bravery has nothing at all to do with not being afraid/scared.  Bravery is entirely acting despite or because of that fear.  I know a lot of people who have acted bravely that were terrified the entire time.  I've known people that acted bravely and were terrified after.  I've never known of someone to be in a terrifying situation and feel no fear regarding it at all--and, were I to find one, I'd think they were a sociopath.

 

So I absolutely disagree with Adolin being too afraid to be the living embodiment of bravery.  He fits it rather perfectly.

 

I do agree with. I would argue basically every single character we have met would qualify as "brave", but Radiants somehow have to be more than normal people. Adolin does not strike as "more brave" than your average Alethi.

 

I would also argue we haven't seen Adolin act despite his fear nor brave it, not truly. He has never been afraid so far in combat, but he has been afraid to lose his family. Has he confronted that? I am not sure, hence my comment.

 

I also think that even though Adolin may not be a major character, he is certainly important.  His story is likely as important within the confines of the Stormlight Archive as Hoid's is.  It might be the same sort of tangential that helps to shape the overall picture that Hoid will likely have (ie, no Hoid = no Kaladin the Radiant is pretty storming self-evident to me).  He has POV in every book so far, after all.  And the strong bonds he has with his family would allow for some really interesting/powerful storytelling.  Like, what if the Renarin-flashback book has Adolin as the primary POV character?

 

Sadly no. Adolin isn't one of the characters Brandon has chosen to articulate the story around. He is not unimportant, but he isn't important either: he does not have to be in the story while Hoid definitely has to be. Adolin doesn't have a large role to play and he isn't one of the ten walking in line or whatever it was this death rattle said. He will never be the recipient of any of Hoid's stories nor attention: just being around main characters is practically the most we can expect of him.

 

The best we can hope for Adolin is for him to inherit his own independent story arc (hopefully something awesome such as the Blade revival one) with enough viewpoints for it to accumulate into satisfactory character development. He will not however be a main character into any book nor will he be the focus character of any order. He will never be a primary character, tertiary character number 1 is the best we can hope for him in terms of "importance" within the main narrative. Mind, this is still better than Szeth or Eshonai, but it will never amount to Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, Lift, Jasnah and probably Renarin once the series is over.

 

We also aren't going to get into Adolin's thoughts the way we got into Kaladin's. His ordeal following Sadeas's death won't be explored as deeply as Kaladin's depression. We aren't even getting Adolin's viewpoints in Part 1 and while we are certainly going to read of everyone else's reactions to Sadeas's timely death, but we aren't getting his. How he deals with it will likely be of equal importance as his dueling story arc back in WoR, which means of little importance. We are going to see glimpses, but nothing will be fully developed as he is not the story the author wants to tell or he isn't the character he planned to use to tell it. He is just not in the plan. 

 

This being said, Dustbringer is an order whom Brandon have confirmed we won't see more of until one becomes a main character and since Adolin is never becoming a main character, that basically rules him out even if we disagree onto whether or not he would fit in there. I seriously doubt Brandon will use a tertiary character to explore an order: he will certainly use his main characters. Therefore any order Adolin may end up in will come after the right character is properly introduced.

 

I agree Adolin is a perfect character to use for powerful meaningful story telling, but it does not appear as if the structure of the Stormlight Archive will allow him to take up enough page time for it.

[kaellok he/him]

Well - Eshonai felt the thrill in the battle with Adolin.  Even earlier, even Dalinar used to feel the thrill wielding the shardblade right until the end of WoK. 

Right.  But Adolin mentions at the beginning of the battle against the stormbringers that it felt right, to be fighting against an enemy that the Blade and Plate were literally designed to combat.  So, I think that it's very possible that there would be a heightened connection between the remnants of Honor during such an event that would cause the anti-Thrill protection that seems to usually be reserved for Radiants that have progressed a certain amount down their path.  (Dalinar started feeling the nausea, etc. because of becoming closer to being Bonded with the Stormfather, there's a WoB that says that Radiants are basically immune to the Thrill, etc.)

 

@ Maxal

Even if Adolin is not a primary focus, I absolutely do not think that that means he is unimportant.  In terms of Cosmere, Hoid is infinitely more important--but for the front 5 SA books I really don't see this being true.  Adolin is too close and important to too many characters that are vital to the story of the SA.  

 

I'm thinking of the story like a puzzle.  The big cool pictures in the middle are Dalinar and Shallan and Kaladin so far.  There's a couple other faces that are unknown, but likely to be Szeth and Eshonai, imo.  Hoid would be all of the edge pieces, and Adolin the sky.  Neither are really vital to the story, but the image would be drastically different and less without them.

 

(I'm also feeling uncharacteristically optimistic these days; I am guessing that it goes with the tremendous lack of sleep I'm getting these days, but who knows! )

[maxal she/her]

@ Maxal

Even if Adolin is not a primary focus, I absolutely do not think that that means he is unimportant.  In terms of Cosmere, Hoid is infinitely more important--but for the front 5 SA books I really don't see this being true.  Adolin is too close and important to too many characters that are vital to the story of the SA.  

 

I'm thinking of the story like a puzzle.  The big cool pictures in the middle are Dalinar and Shallan and Kaladin so far.  There's a couple other faces that are unknown, but likely to be Szeth and Eshonai, imo.  Hoid would be all of the edge pieces, and Adolin the sky.  Neither are really vital to the story, but the image would be drastically different and less without them.

 

(I'm also feeling uncharacteristically optimistic these days; I am guessing that it goes with the tremendous lack of sleep I'm getting these days, but who knows! )

 

I didn't mean "unimportant" as in "unimportant" more as "unimportant" is the overall scheme of the Stormlight Archive. He isn't vital to the main story arc and while I do agree the story is better because he is in it, realistic expectations when it comes to his character development shouldn't be set too high. FYI, I love the sky imagery.

 

Brandon has explicitly stated the main characters for the first half of SA were: Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, Eshonai and Szeth. If you look at his little viewpoint attribution graphic, it means the first three slots will always be filled by three characters among those. Since book 4 will feature Eshonai and book 5 Szeth, we can expect someone in between Kaladin, Shallan and Dalinar to drop to tertiary character level for those two books. 

 

Adolin however, despite being a rather prominent character, will never rise up to these three slots. He is thus never becoming a focus character for any given order, this is a certainty. Speculations thus very sadly have to take this fact into consideration.

 

As I said, my only hope are his arc will accumulate into something satisfactory, but it will never have the depth of Kaladin's and this is a source of bother for me. Should I try to sleep deprive myself in order to feel more optimistic?