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Feruchemic Hemalurgic Spike


KevThinker

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Just finished reading Mistborn and I was listening to the part where Sazed, Marsh and Vin are discussing Rashek's manipulation of Feruchemy and Allomancy to prolong his life. It got me thinking about how there doesn't seem to be any interaction between the Feruchemy and Hemalurgy.

 

Would it be possible for a keeper to form a metalmind, have that metalmind forged into a spike and then have it pierce a person's spirit web to endow them with the stored attribute?

 

We've already seen how an Allomancer's spiritual dna can be hacked and transferred, so why not a Feruchemist's?

 

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about transferring the ability to use Feruchemy, I'm talking about forming a hemalurgic spike from a metalmind. 

Edited by KevThinker
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Just finished reading Mistborn and I was listening to the part where Sazed, Marsh and Vin are discussing Rashek's manipulation of Feruchemy and Allomancy to prolong his life. It got me thinking about how there doesn't seem to be any interaction between the Feruchemy and Hemalurgy.

Would it be possible for a keeper to form a metalmind, have that metalmind forged into a spike and then have it pierce a person's spirit web to endow them with the stored attribute?

We've already seen how an Allomancer's spiritual dna can be hacked and transferred, so why not a Feruchemist's?

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about transferring the ability to use Feruchemy, I'm talking about forming a hemalurgic spike from a metalmind.

I wonder if this could be another way to get around feruchemy's end-neutralness. You can store an attribute, then give it to another, who can then benefit from the boost at a fixed rate. I wonder which metals do this hemalurgically?
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You know... Now that I think about it, there might even be a way to utilize all three magic systems at once. You forge a spike, then have a Feruchemist store an attribute into it, then ram that spike into a misting's heart stealing his allomantic Spirit DNA and then insert that into a person who would be able to utilize the combined power of the misting and the feruchemist. Thoughts?

 

Like somekind of triple combination.

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First, I have quotes, to appease the forum gods.
 

Interview: Jul, 2009
Twitter: Brandonothology collection (Verbatim)
 
 
Czanos

Would anything interesting happen if an Allomancer Burned a Hemalurgic spike, or a Feruchemist Tapped one?

Brandon Sanderson

Er, well, it’s possible. But you’d have to be burning a Hemalurgic spike that killed you and took your power... Just like you can’t gain anything by burning a metalmind unless you infused it yourself.

 

Interview: Jan 10th, 2011
Tor Q&A with Brandon Sanderson (Verbatim)
 
 
Maru Nui ()

Can you both Feruchemically charge and Hemalurgically invest in the same piece of metal?

Brandon Sanderson ()


Yes.

Maru Nui

What would happen if you burned the Feruchemically charged and Hemalurgically invested metal?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

 

Interview: Nov 21st, 2011
Alloy of Law Signing Report - Lord Juss (Paraphrased)


Question

How does compounding work in Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson

I can explain this better in person because I know things that the characters in the book don’t. So, they haven’t worked a lot of this out. All the magic systems in my work are linked because the books all take place in the same universe. In Elantris, magic works by drawing symbols in the air. What actually happens is that when they draw a symbol, energy passes through it from another place (which is my get-out for the laws of thermodynamics) and the effect of that energy is moderated by the symbol. In one case it may become light, in another it may become fire. In Mistborn, the metals have a similar effect. The magic is not coming from the metal (even if some characters think it is). It is being drawn from the same place and moderated by the metal.
 
In the case of Feruchemy, no energy is being drawn from this other place. So, you spend a week sick and store up the ability to heal. It’s a balanced system, basically obeying the laws of thermodynamics. So, while it’s not real, it’s still rational.
 
In compounding, when you have the power of both Allomancy and Feruchemy, you draw power from the other place through the metal and it recognizes the power that is already stored—"Oh, this is healing, I know how to do that”—and so you get the power of Feruchemy but boosted by energy from the other place. This is how the Lord Ruler achieved immortality.

 

Interview: Nov 16th, 2011
Open The Fridge Interview

Open The Fridge

My question is if there’s anything that you’ve never been asked that you would like to talk about?

Brandon Sanderson

Oooooh, ok. Hm. That one is so hard! Every time people ask me something like this... What have I never been asked that people should be asking, is basically what the question is? Something that the fans have just missed... They pick up on so much, that it’s hard... I do wonder if, you know… all the magic systems [in my books] are connected and work on some basic fundamental principles, and a lot of people haven’t been asking questions about this. One thing I did get a question on today, and I’ll just talk about this one... they didn’t ask the right question, but I nudged them the right way, is understanding that tie between AonDor [the magic system from Elantris] and allomancy [Mistborn’s magic system].
 
People ask about getting the power from metals and things, but that’s not actually how it works. The power’s not coming from metal. I talked a little about this before, but you are drawing power from some source, and the metal is actually just a gateway. It’s actually the molecular structure of the metal… what’s going on there, the pattern, the resonance of that metal works in the same way as an Aon does in Elantris. It filters the power. So it is just a sign of “this is what power this energy is going to be shaped into and give you.” When you understand that, compounding [in Alloy of Law] makes much more sense.
 
Compounding is where you are able to kind of draw in more power than you should with feruchemy. What’s going on there is you’re actually charging a piece of metal, and then you are burning that metal as a feruchemical charge. What is happening is that the feruchemical charge overwrites the allomantic charge, and so you actually fuel feruchemy with allomancy, is what you are doing. Then if you just get out another piece of metal and store it in, since you’re not drawing the power from yourself, you’re cheating the system, you’re short-circuiting the system a little bit. So you can actually use the power that usually fuels allomancy, to fuel feruchemy, which you can then store in a metalmind, and basically build up these huge reservoirs of it. So what’s going on there is… imagine there’s like, an imprint, a wavelength, so to speak. A beat for an allomantic thing, that when you burn a metal, it says “ok, this is what power we give.” When it’s got that charge, it changes that beat and says, “now we get this power.” And you access a set of feruchemical power. That’s why compounding is so powerful.

 
Not all of these are expressly relevant to my point, but they all seem to concern the topic, so I thought I'd bring them up.
 
Anyway, my interpretation of the quotes about compounding is that compounding doesn't actually make Feruchemy end-positive; it enables you to use an already end-positive investiture - Allomancy - in new and exciting ways. Basically, it creates a new metal, which can be burned for an effect that mimics the Feruchemical attribute that you have stored. You're not multiplying the stored attribute; you're getting a bunch of Preservation's power to act as though it was the stored attribute.

 

The difference is subtle, but significant. If our theoretical Feruchemy-Hemalurgy interaction functions like compounding - and there is absolutely no reason to suggest that it wouldn't - then, just as in compounding, the Feruchemical charge will act only as a blueprint, changing the spike into a new kind of metal. It could not provide power for the interaction - that has to come from the normal place. In other words, your feru-spike would still have to be driven through an appropriate bind point before it could be used Hemalurgically. Storing an attribute in a spike would basically just change the spike so that it now steals that attribute.

 

Additionally, the first quote brings up the excellent point that Feruchemical charge retains information about who stored it. On some fundamental level, my weight and your weight are not the same thing - and what's more, you cannot use my weight. To me, this seems to imply some heavy restrictions on our interaction. My best guess is that it would end up working as follows:

 

Feruchemist A stores some of "Weight A" in an iron spike. Feruchemist B cannot draw from this ironmind, because Feruchemist B can only draw "Weight B." Now, this new feru-spike is now capable of stealing the attribute you have stored... but that attribute isn't just "Weight," it's "Weight A." So, in order to hemalurgically charge this spike, Feruchemist A would have to drive it through his own heart. Let's say he does this. He has now created a "Weight A" spike - and the only person who could benefit from such a spike would be Feruchemist A. Thus, all in all, the interaction would be useless.

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