16 Shards, 16 Metals

[Stormgate he/him]

In a WoB, someone asked Sanderson if the Ten Essences on Roshar are linked to the Ten Shardworlds, and he replied with a vague answer. It's not important for this thread. However, is there something similar with the 16 Allomantic metals? I realize I am opening a can of worms, or giving an open can of worms somewhere to dump its worms, but it's something I have been thinking about since I learned there were 16 Allomantic metals and 16 Shards.

 

Basically, I recognized that various magic systems often have secondary effects. Stormlight, for example, grants the Surgebinder increased strength, speed, and general physical abilities, similar to Pewter, as well as the ability to manipulate Surges. It would be logical, if this were to be true, that Honor's opposite Shard would grant enhanced senses of some such. So, here is a tentative list of known Shards and their possible Allomantic metal equivalents. 

 

Honor: Basically mentioned earlier. Pewter heals (though not terribly quickly, relative to gold Feruchemy or actual Stormlight), grants increased physical abilities, and allows greater physical endurance.

 

Cultivation: I don't know enough about Cultivation's magic system to make any guesses.

 

Odium: Again with not enough info.

 

Endowment: At first glance, it would seem that Endowment would be Tin, as it grants perfect pitch, greater perception of colors, etc. However, with even one Breath, you are able to detect other people with Breaths, with more Breaths granting greater ability to detect Breath. More importantly, Drabs are undetectable with the life sense. All this indicates the metal equivalent is Bronze.

 

Autonomy: Disclamer: these are my views. They may be wrong. Also, I haven't read White Sand, so try not to spoil anything. I am assuming the metal that (SoS spoilers)

Bleeder used to give herself Allomancy and Feruchemy

is the metal of Autonomy. If it's from a different Shard, I amend my statement to whichever Shard it is. The only thing I can get is that using the Metal prevents 

Harmony and possibly other Shards from detecting you.

This indicates that it is probably Copper, the hiding metal. For those of you who won't open the spoiler tags and those who disagree with any part of this, I'm sorry for this part. It could also be the mysterious Survival Shard, in fact I'm almost certain it is, but most people think it is Autonomy.

 

Preservation: This is the part where my theory takes on a bit of stretching of imagination. As far as I can tell, all or almost all of the Allomantic metals have the potential to be used to help preserve you. Maybe Cadmium, which slows down time, more or less preserving anything inside the bubble.

 

Ruin: Bendalloy, because anything inside the bubble has time go faster, ruining it to some extent. It's weak, I know, but it's all I got.

 

Devotion: I have almost nothing, but maybe it's Zinc, since Devotion is arguably about focusing on what you love, and emphasizing it.

 

Dominion: Since it's about dominance, maybe the metal TLR used to keep the skaa of Luthadel submissive, Brass, the Soothing metal.

 

Those are all of the Shards I know of. If anybody disagrees with my theory, any of my classifications, or anything else about this, or has anything to add, I am glad to discuss it.

[KnightGradient]

I've actually been considering the same thing, and I agree completely on Devotion and Dominion's metals. I don't think it'll be perfectly 1:1 matches, but its on the right line I think.

[Oversleep]

Well, first of all Shards on Scadrial would probably get their own metal, just like Ruin's got atium. Furthermore, connection of Honor with pewter based on Stormlight properties is flawed, since Stormlight is just part of Roshar, Surgebinding is more of Honor (but connection is still not quite there - how Pushing or Pulling on metals is of Preservation?).

The Intent would play a role, not Shard's magic. I imagine Endowment would be nicrosil.

But another problem is why we are focusing on the role played in Allomancy? Why not Feruchemy?

There are 16 allomantic metals only because Preservation's number is 16 (like Honor's is 10) and that's the connection to Sixteen Shards of Adonalsium.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Oversleep

[Stormgate he/him]

Well, first of all Shards on Scadrial would probably get their own metal, just like Ruin's got atium. Furthermore, connection of Honor with pewter based on Stormlight properties is flawed, since Stormlight is just part of Roshar, Surgebinding is more of Honor (but connection is still not quite there - how Pushing or Pulling on metals is of Preservation?).

The Intent would play a role, not Shard's magic. I imagine Endowment would be nicrosil.

But another problem is why we are focusing on the role played in Allomancy? Why not Feruchemy?

There are 16 allomantic metals only because Preservation's number is 16 (like Honor's is 10) and that's the connection to Sixteen Shards of Adonalsium.

Believe me, I considered all of these. I struck down atium being Ruin's metal because 1: it wasn't one of the 16 metals, and 2: that would be too easy. Pushing and Pulling on metals can preserve you, as is demonstrated when Kelsier goes totally beast with Pushes and Pulls. I thought very hard on the Shard's intent, but what would Honor have to do with any of the metals? I did have your thought about Nicrosil, as well, but was focusing more on the background influence of the Investiture where possible.

 

    Feruchemy is different. It is based Realmatically, with Physical, Mental, and Spiritual metals, as opposed to Allomancy's four (mostly similar) quadrants of Physical, Mental, Temporal, and Enhancement. I have a bit of a theory that the Feruchemical Realm the metal influences depends on the corresponding Shard's main realm of influence, but I don't have enough connections to attempt this yet. Hemalurgy is just stealing various attributes, no possible Shardic connection there that I can see.

With the number of metals, yes it is because Preservation's number is 16, but I don't see why it can't be representative of the 16 Shards as well.

[Oversleep]

Pushing and Pulling on metals can preserve you, as is demonstrated when Kelsier goes totally beast with Pushes and Pulls. I thought very hard on the Shard's intent, but what would Honor have to do with any of the metals? I did have your thought about Nicrosil, as well, but was focusing more on the background influence of the Investiture where possible.

 

    Feruchemy is different. It is based Realmatically, with Physical, Mental, and Spiritual metals, as opposed to Allomancy's four (mostly similar) quadrants of Physical, Mental, Temporal, and Enhancement. I have a bit of a theory that the Feruchemical Realm the metal influences depends on the corresponding Shard's main realm of influence, but I don't have enough connections to attempt this yet. Hemalurgy is just stealing various attributes, no possible Shardic connection there that I can see.

How wiping other's reserves of metal (chromium) is of Preservation? How seeking Investiture is of Preservation? How seeing your alternate past is of Preservation?

The thing is, there is no such connection. Some Shards may seem compatible, but that's all.

My point is that the only reason we're assigning Shards to metals is just because Preservation happens to have 16 as his number. If Honor did have 16 instead of 10, we would be trying to line up Shard's with Surges and which Shard would be linked to Tension? Which to Abrasion?

[Edgedancer he/him]

A little thing to add now that you have come to the is doing x of Preservation debate. What Shard the magic is from has apparently nothing to do with what it does but with how it is gained. So attaching an extra piece to someone's soul isn't of Ruin but stabbing them is, changing gravity isn't of Honor but swearing oaths is ect.

[Stormgate he/him]

My theory as it concerns Preservation and Ruin is shakey at best. Chromium can preserve you by neutralizing any Misting, and I know that the powers aren't necessarily connected to the Shard's intent, but I don't have as much to go on as I'd like.

[Rockbud he/him]

As far as i understand it: Stormlight and the base metals are examples of focuses; integral parts of a shards magic system dictated by the planet where the magic system manifests, but not of the shard itself.

This would explain why the unknown shards power in SoS manifested on Scandrial through he planet's focus: metal.

There was a great theory on here recently tying the essences to shard world focuses which heavily influenced how I see it all connecting, but your parallels between powers does also have me thinking:

There are some underlying similarities: you mentioned strength and endurance. There are also various temporal powers across magic systems. What if there was a pattern: not tying other shards back to the 16 metals of allomancy, but tying all of the magic systems back to some original magic system of Adonalsium?

(I'm tired, this could be nonsense and I think I'm getting a little crazy with my Adonalsium theories these days)

[Stormgate he/him]

I had an idea about that, even made a thread of it when I first got on the Shard. It was struck down rather fast.

Also, Stormlight isn't Roshar's focus. It's Investiture. Gemstones are currently the most likely focus for Roshar, but I have other suspicions.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Stormgate

[Yata he/him]

I had an idea about that, even made a thread of it when I first got on the Shard. It was struck down rather fast.

Also, Stormlight isn't Roshar's focus. It's Investiture. Gemstones are currently the most likely focus for Roshar, but I have other suspicions.

From the moment that I read WotK and WoR I think that the Roshar Focus are the "bonds". And until now nothing made me think to another probable focus.

[Stormgate he/him]

My current theory is waveforms, somehow.

[Topaz]

I thought the shards made "God metals" like atium, and lerasium. There might be some similarities.

Also, I like your theory, and I'm wondering if there could be a similarity with the orders and the other shards

[Stormgate he/him]

There is a big difference between God metals and a planet's Focus. Atium and Lerasium are solid Investiture, the planet's focus is how Investiture naturally is channeled on that planet.

[Ari he/him]

Yeah, I'm not really on-board yet with the idea that base metals are aligned with specific shards, especially as the fits you've proposed here seem rather contrived. IIRC, however, there is text from Sazed in HoA that refers to Preservation picking the number 16 for his hints (and possibly for the number of base metals, it's unclear on that front) due to the broader significance of that number. There's no evidence that there's any relevance of 16 to Preservation in particular the way that 10 is relevant to Honour- (ie. his ten purposes) rather, he put it in as a pointer to the number of base metals and the number of shards, and the ratio of the mistfallen to the general population, and the Atium mistings in particular. I honestly came into this topic expecting a rather different discussion given how much implication we have on the nature of 16 base metals in the text.

 

As for Roshar- I'd provisionally say gemstones look like the focus there, especially when you consider how Jasnah uses them for Soulcasting, and their ability to retain Stormlight, which leaks out of anything else. The bonds on Roshar seem to be the method of Initiation rather than the focus that channels the investiture, but whether this is correct is hard to tell as neither gemstones or bonds seem to cleanly follow the pattern other books have set for Initiation and foci.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Ari

[Oversleep]

As for Roshar- I'd provisionally say gemstones look like the focus there, especially when you consider how Jasnah uses them for Soulcasting, and their ability to retain Stormlight, which leaks out of anything else. The bonds on Roshar seem to be the method of Initiation rather than the focus that channels the investiture, but whether this is correct is hard to tell as neither gemstones or bonds seem to cleanly follow the pattern other books have set for Initiation and foci.

On Scadrial, everything is simple with metals here and there and everywhere. On Roshar, things get weird. For example, gemstones are used only as a way to have Stormlight available when there is no highstorm around. The Investiture is Stormlight, and gemstones only happen to be able to hold it way better than anything else (but by no means perfectly - the non-highstormed spheres go dun eventually).

As we have seen, living beings use Stormlight by infusing themselves with it (fabrials doesn't count, it's technically technology). Some even evolved gemhearts as way to be able to hold it better.

Of course, gemstones are storming useful, but they actually have nothing to do with Surgebinding or Voidbinding. There is no difference between Stormlight coming directly from highstorm and from gems - so why would gems be special?

[Stormgate he/him]

In later books, we may find other ways to hold Stormlight, which will be so exiting!

I feel it necessary to bring up something about a Shardworld's focus that I figured out, forgot about, then just remembered. On Shardworlds, there are two methods of writing things down. There is one, that anyone can read, basically like our language(s). Then there is another, to which Shards are blind. Art, especially poetry, is often based on the planet's focus.

On Scadrial, we get the line,"I write this in metal, for anything not set in metal cannot be trusted"

On Nalthis, we get the Artist's script, based on dots of color.

On Sel, there are records written with Aons, as well as ChayShan being confirmed by WoB as being based on Jindoese (may be spelled wrong) writing, which is likely based on the land.

On Roshar, we have glyphs. The symbols called 'Voidbonding Surges', or some such, are based on rotational symmetry. The glyphs that men are allowed to write and learn are based on symmetry. Lighteyes' names aren't palindromes, usually, because the symmetry is seen as divine. A ketek, (palindrome) written in already symmetric glyphs, becomes perfectly symmetrical, to the point that, if reflected in a mirror, would appear identical to the original. Somehow, symmetry is Roshar's focus.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Stormgate

[J-max04]

The metals are all split by two categories. They are either pushing or pulling, and either internal or external. But the number 16, being a power of 2, could be split four times. Is it possible for there to be more categories? the table here just splits this into 4 categories, rather than 2 sets of 2. Is there a common grouping?

Moving on, the same category system, I believe, may apply to the shards. Already, we've seen pairings of shards, like ruin and preservation, and devotion and dominion. Notably, in each pair, there appears to be one "loving" shard, that "Pulls" people together, and one "aloof" shard, that "pushes" people away, or one "good" and one "evil" shard. Endowment would appear to be a "loving", along with cultivation, and honor, while odium, autonomy, and possibly this "Hiding/survival" shard appear to be aloof. Of course, I wouldn't suggest that these are the proper intents of this division. Another way we could try splitting these shards into categories is by the fact that some can see the future and some can't, suggesting another division.

Already, we know that preservation and cultivation are good at foresight, while ruin and honor aren't so good. What other divisions can we glean, and could we use this to predict other shards?

Could "survival" be the counterpart to cultivation?

Could there be a counterpart to "Autonomy", "Society"?

Only Brandon knows.

Edited December 19, 2015 by J-max04

[Oversleep]

You may want to check this topic

Dominion and Devotion aren't really opposites, though they are similar enough to be put in the same quadrant.

[Stormgate he/him]

I thought of a new way to tell which metal goes with which Shard. In another thread, I propose that electrum Mistings can burn atium. What if Allomantically burning a God Metal provides an altered effect to their Allomantic counterpart? So Ruin and electrum would go together, and we don't know what burning Lerasium does, exactly. We know what it does to non-Allomancers, but Mistborn? I think he's RAFOed every attempt.

[Ari he/him]

On Scadrial, everything is simple with metals here and there and everywhere. On Roshar, things get weird. For example, gemstones are used only as a way to have Stormlight available when there is no highstorm around. The Investiture is Stormlight, and gemstones only happen to be able to hold it way better than anything else (but by no means perfectly - the non-highstormed spheres go dun eventually).

As we have seen, living beings use Stormlight by infusing themselves with it (fabrials doesn't count, it's technically technology). Some even evolved gemhearts as way to be able to hold it better.

Of course, gemstones are storming useful, but they actually have nothing to do with Surgebinding or Voidbinding. There is no difference between Stormlight coming directly from highstorm and from gems - so why would gems be special?

 

You all seem to be forgetting that fabrials are constructed by trapping Spren in gemstones, which seems rather important and an indication that they MAY be the world focus for Roshar. (or at least a specific focus for Surgebinding) In general the more useful something ends up on a planet the more suspicious I am that it's that planet's focus. I'm not wedded to this theory, but it seems the best one to date.

 

We know for instance that some metals, in addition to being focii on Scadrial, are inert to investiture in general, (the special properties of silver in Shadows for Silence are likely a result of the general rules for silver and the fact that it's inert to investiture, and possibly also relate to the properties of aluminum) and it may be that certain focii are similarly universal in nature.

 

The reason Stormlight itself can't be a focus is that Stormlight is the local form of investiture. Weather in general also can't be a focus as there are interesting weather manifestations because of investiture galaxy-wide. It would be like describing Breaths as the focus on Nalthis. It makes no sense, as a focus is a method by which one utilises investiture. The two things you'd look to on Nalthis would be colours and commands, although colours seem to make the most sense. I would highly suspect that anything that has been gathered by Mraize is a local focus or related to the local focus somehow, for instance, suggesting that bone is either itself a focus on Sel, or it acts as a focus with the symbols etched into it.

[Stormgate he/him]

In Shadows of Silence, I'm not convinced that the metal is silver. I think it's aluminum.

Remember the Everstorm? Nobody can deny that it was/is magical, but no gemstones were used. There is the possibility of Listeners having gemhearts, but beyond that, we might have some insight into the focus for Roshar. Maybe those Rhythms that we have been hearing about with bronze or briefly in AonDor finally are revealed. I think, maybe, that symmetry is the focus. The glyphs have reflected symmetry. The Void glyphs and the cymatics of the Plains and certain cities use rotational symmetry.

[Oversleep]

Well, maybe Tanavast was just fond of symmetry and everything ended up like that.

I agree there is something with the Rhythms, but I think the song which were Voidbringers singing was just synching them up. Listeners' Rhythms would be kinda like hive consciousness...? Emotions?

[Stormgate he/him]

Something permeates the entire world...and you think Tanavast liked symmetry. Do you think Shards have much influence on how Investiture gets transmitted? How it's used is debatable, how they are able to use it definitely in the Shard's control. How mortals get Investiture...usually not under Shardic control.

Besides, would Honor make symmetrical cities for no reason?

[Moogle]

On this whole discussion on focuses... I have to ask, what exactly is a focus?

 

Nalthis has Commands, and Scadrial has metals.

 

This WoB pretty soundly explains what is needed to transform Investiture into an effect:

QUESTION
My question is, what 'causes' an effect in the end for Allomancy? You've got Investiture being filtered through a metal, but does putting it through the metal turn the Investiture cause a Steelpush, or is it putting the Investiture through your soul that causes it? At what point do you turn Preservation's Investiture into a Steelpush, or is there no one 'point' where it happens?
 
BRANDON SANDERSON
Okay, imagine you've got one of those play-dough machines you can stuff with dough, then press a handle on the top to make a little snake-like tube of play-dough squirt out.
Those have appendages you can affix to the front to change the shape of the tube that comes out. The metals are the appendage that determines the shape of the power released, but only certain souls can unlock those metals and use them.
(source)

QUESTION
If metals shape the Investiture in Allomancy, causing a Steelpush or whatever, how is it that the mists can be used to perform the same feat? What is 'shaping' the inhaled mists into a Steelpush, if there's no metal "nozzle" to do so?
 
BRANDON SANDERSON
Consistently through the cosmere, once you have the power in hand and it has permeated you, will becomes your nozzle. This can be seen in Warbreaker, where the power has been distributed and inhabits the people. The nozzle idea is important for Magics that are drawing power externally, as it keeps the power from overwhelming and destroying you. (Which, basically, happened to Vin at the end of the Trilogy--she got consumed by the magic. She became something new, now, so it didn't KILL her. It destroyed what she was, transformed her into something else.)
So you see magics like on Sel and Scadrial where a specific nozzle is needed--as the power source is external, at least with Allomancy. Will and intent take a backseat, though still pop up on occasion. On Nalthis (and in a lesser way, Roshar) will and intent are more important, and what you are trying to do shapes the magic more directly.
A little direct manifestation in this is found in the subtle differences between Allomancy and Feruchemy. In Allomancy, when you enhance the senses, you just get a blast of power--and all senses are enhanced, whether you want them all or not. In Feruchemy, you can be more precise, and pick a specific sense to store. The power is internal here, and therefore more limited in how much you can draw--but you can also be more precise with its manipulation.
Note that Roshar Surgebinding is a special case, as the magical symbiosis there is stronger than it is on other worlds, as much of the magic involves bits of power who have become sapient.
(source)

 

 

As explained here, metals are not necessary for the use of Allomancy. Will and intent can replace the use of focuses, it seems.

 

This suggests the non-vocal Commands used by people of a high enough Heightening are a similar effect of bypassing the system's focus.

 

It further suggests that Surgebinding on Roshar, which uses straight Stormlight akin to using the mists to power Allomancy, is also bypassing whatever focus exists. But we should be careful in that assumption because, as Brandon notes, Roshar is a little bit different.

 

Bonds certainly can give you power on Roshar, but WoB is that Roshar is not special in this regard:

Thadamin
Is this kind of bond relatively common or is what seons, spren, and night blood do little more rare among splinters. I'm specifically talking about the act of making bonds not a giving of magic powers really, that appearing to be function of Roshar. Also regarding your post about storm light 3 I am personally ok with 2000 pages if need be so make the chapters as long as you want.

mistborn
The bonding is basically the same mechanic, regardless of the world, just with different flavoring. Roshar isn't the only place where the bond gives powers; it's a matter of what's stuffed into the soul, and how.
(source)

 

So with that said, I'm going to say that focuses seem to be things which serve to shape Investiture in the absence of will or Intent acting as a nozzle.

 

With that in mind, Roshar's focus remains unclear. Gems are needed for Soulcasting and fabrials, but Soulcasting still has you using your will to shape the product, and fabrials need spren (which raises questions of how mechanical Allomancy is supposed to work).

[Stormgate he/him]

Will and intent do not replace foci, simply make a sort of secondary focus. The Nalthis focus is color, demonstrated by the Tears of Edgli, who is the confirmed Shardholder of Endowment. Note that on Nalthis, auditory Commands are not always necessary, as shown by Susebron's use of Breath.