baby he/him Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 We know that feruchemy was formed as a result of 2 shards with opposite intent both choosing the same planet to stay and cultivate. Could a magic system similar to feruchemy be formed on other planets with shards of opposite intent but with a different focus? (instead of metal) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An evil 545lighteyes he/him Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Potentially, but I think that there is WoB that Scadrial has the most directly opposed shards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brgst13 Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Isnt this pretty much what happened on Sel? We know that there were two shards, but multiple magic systems (soulstamps, AonDor, whatever the monks do, and ChayShan). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) If this were to happen, the magic would probably be end-neutral, but I can't tell for sure. Actually, there may be an example of this on Sel. Though we don't know much about the magic systems, we know of AonDor, which is end-positive, Dakhor, which is the most end-neutral magic system I believe we've encountered, Forging, which is end-neutral (although we can't account for the origins of, say the paint), and another magic system called ChayShan which I'm tentatively labelling end-positive. Forging may be the balance magic system you're looking for: by devoting yourself to the history of an object, you can achieve dominion over its nature. I'm basically supported Brgst13's statement, simply going more in-depth. My internet was a bit laggy, so I couldn't see Brgst13's post Edited November 10, 2015 by Stormgate 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 he/him Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Actually, I think the Dor (in most or all of its forms) is end-positive. Even Dakhor, because in this case human lives are being treated as an Allomancer treats their metal reserves. Of course, I could just be unwilling to transfer the distinction of "only end-negative magic system" away from Hemalurgy, but there you are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path he/him Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Isnt this pretty much what happened on Sel? We know that there were two shards, but multiple magic systems (soulstamps, AonDor, whatever the monks do, and ChayShan). Sorry, but it isn't. All Selish magics are basically the same system, so they should all be end-positive. Here's my source. WINDRUNNER17 ()Why does Scadrial, which has two Shards, only have three manifestations of investiture, (Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy) but Sel, also with two Shards, has five manifestations of investiture (AonDor, Dakhor, ChayShan, Forgery, and Bloodsealing)? BRANDON SANDERSONSel's magics are much more regionalized than Scadrial's. Each area has its own manifestation, but they're all actually the same magic. So really there is one magic on Sel—much as Windrunning and Lightweaving on Roshar are kind of different magics, but also kind of the same. When talking about multi-shard magics, Roshar is your best bet IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 he/him Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Sorry, but it isn't. When talking about multi-shard magics, Roshar is your best bet IMO. Sel's magic is a conglomeration of two Shards. No one said that a magic system made from two Shards had to be end neutral. In fact, Feruchemy probably only wound up end neutral because the magic system fueled by Preservation alone is end positive and the one fueled by Ruin is end negative, so they cancel into an end neutral for their combined magic system. To put it another way, Feruchemy is end neutral because the two Shards that created it are perfect opposites. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Perfect opposites that inherently result in neutrality at that. Hemalurgy had no reason to be negative other than the fact that Ruin destroys, and allomancy uses Preservation as fuel to prevent loss of innate investiture as the only other source. It's basically entirely circumstantial in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Perfect opposites that inherently result in neutrality at that. Hemalurgy had no reason to be negative other than the fact that Ruin destroys, and allomancy uses Preservation as fuel to prevent loss of innate investiture as the only other source. It's basically entirely circumstantial in my opinion. It's circumstantial. Other opposite pair of shard may generate both Positive and Neutral magic system (I would say also Negative, but the Negative is quite rarest to see). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 he/him Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 It's circumstantial. Other opposite pair of shard may generate both Positive and Neutral magic system (I would say also Negative, but the Negative is quite rarest to see). I'm only expecting one other end negative system, at most, from the Cosmere, and a few more end neutrals, since we currently only have one, and if end negative is the rarest, then there must be at least one more end neutral. Keep in mind that according to WoB from some time ago, there are no other diametrically opposite Shards. There might be Shards that seem to be opposites, but only Preservation and Ruin are perfect opposites. I also didn't mean to imply that end neutral can only come about from two opposite Shards birthing a magic system. I fully expect a single Shard system to form one of the end neutrals that are sure to come in the future, but the two Shards combining seems to be the explanation for Feruchemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baby he/him Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Is Awakening end-neutral? Also it only has the one shard so that might be an example if it is. Edited November 12, 2015 by Once-ler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathoth Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Is Awakening end-neutral? Also it only has the one shard so that might be an example if it is. Awakening needs color, I think thats end positive... is that end positive? How about The Old Magic? You get a bane and a boon, Taravangians state seems very much like feruchemical zinc, looks end neutral to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Is Awakening end-neutral? Also it only has the one shard so that might be an example if it is. Awakening is end-neutral, as you get the Investiture from yourself; no power (Investiture) is lost or gained after a full use of Awakening where you retrieve your Breath. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 he/him Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Awakening is end-neutral, as you get the Investiture from yourself; no power (Investiture) is lost or gained after a full use of Awakening where you retrieve your Breath. I thought Brandon WoB-ed it as end positive (which always confused me)? Edit: Nevermind, I found that he WoB-ed it as end neutral. I have no idea how I got the end positive WoB in my head... Good call Once-ler! Edit 2: Awakening needs color, I think thats end positive... is that end positive? How about The Old Magic? You get a bane and a boon, Taravangians state seems very much like feruchemical zinc, looks end neutral to me. End-neutral systems are systems in which the net power change is 0. To use the Scadrian examples, Allomancy is end-positive because the net power is >0. The Allomancer burns the metal, and gains a power while said metal is burning. There are no true downsides from simple, average use. The Allomancer doesn't lose something to gain that power. Hemalurgy, then, is end-negative because the net power change is negative. This loss of power occurs after the spiking of powers, where some of it leaks away before being placed in a new host. Feruchemy, then, is end-neutral. A Feruchemist has to store their powers, to then use them later. When taking advantage of speed, one has to store speed to then gain it later. Sure, you can adjust the speed in which the metalmind fills and empties, but in the end one doesn't gain additional speed, there is never speed creation. So, Awakening's use of color has nothing to do with it. Rather, the fact that Breath isn't lost to the user is what makes the system end neutral. Lifeless are then a special case within the system. As for the Old Magic, I don't think we know enough yet to classify it. Considering the boons have the potential to be "super powers", such as Lift's metabolism, I'd say it's end-positive. The bane doesn't matter much, since it can't remove powers (or at least, we've yet to see it do so). Edited November 12, 2015 by Blaze1616 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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