Let's talk Philosophy...

[Gwylon]

After reading the Stormlight Archive yet again, I was intrigued by some of the philosophical discussions that Hoid held with either guards or ugly lizard-crab-things. I decided to start a philosophy thread (not sure if one already exists) and see what people come up with. I am slightly selfish in that our class is doing philosophy for English so I want some material to use. But then it doesn't matter. I personally like the statement about expectations and how people are fickle things. Now to you guys.

[Guest]

Not sure what exactly you want >.> Would discuss if I had a topic...

[Stormgate he/him]

Would you like to discuss theology and morality? Because Ham makes a very nice point in TFE.

[Guest]

If we can do it politely...

[Stormgate he/him]

There is a topic in the Mistborn forum that discusses whether or not Kelsier is a hero. Perhaps you could simply use that.

[Kasimir he/him]

Well, you'd be partly at the mercy of what type of philosophy interests you. Ethics? Aesthetics? (The conversations Hoid has can, in part, be translated into a discourse about whether works of art possess intrinsic value, and if so, what sort of account of these values we can give.) Political philosophy? For obvious reasons, the lighteyes/darkeyes caste system is complex and, one might argue, rather unjust. But what then is justice? How can we problematise such systems?

 

Or perhaps you're more a fan of metaphysics, in which case Platonic forms and their use in Sanderson's books might be a more appealing theme.

 

What about epistemology? What are good ways of arriving at knowledge? How should knowledge be deployed? Should knowledge be controlled, as it clearly was in Rashek's Final Empire? Is knowledge dangerous?

 

^ Many, many, many possibilities.

 

Edit: To be fair, I should note that I don't tend to read Sanderson's works philosophically, as I read them to switch off from uni stuff, so these are more tentative suggestions at best.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Kasimir

[STINK he/him]

For a forum on the internet, Ethics would probably be the best to discuss rather than more complicated stuff

 

In fact, I'm surprised there isn't a section of the forum dedicated to all the tricky topics that are controversial and stuff, as most other forums tend to have one.

Edited November 7, 2015 by IrulelikeSTINK

[Guest]

I suggested this a few times a while back, but the mods essentially don't want to provide an excuse to not be nice. I take what I can get, because talking about politics/ethics/philosophy has always been something that I enjoy (even speaking from an amateur viewpoint).

Edited November 7, 2015 by Guest

[STINK he/him]

Well you wouldn't have to be really mean in it, but rather it would be more of a place where you discuss those issues that you can't really discuss anywhere else.

 

You could always make a massive group PM about it though...

Edited November 7, 2015 by IrulelikeSTINK

[Orlion Blight he/him]

I would say Hoid has not really discussed anything philosophically...his attitude is more that of an older man imparting wisdom to some whippersnappers. He seems, to me, to be speaking about what he had learned from experience rather than from some analytical model.

[Batemenace]

I think given the topic's placement in the Cosmere section, we might as well try delving into philosophies that inspired the cosmere, or at least might be related. The first that comes to mind is Plato's Cave allegory in relation to the different realms of the cosmere. Anyone want to expound on that?

[Kasimir he/him]

I would say Hoid has not really discussed anything philosophically...his attitude is more that of an older man imparting wisdom to some whippersnappers. He seems, to me, to be speaking about what he had learned from experience rather than from some analytical model.

It's always possible to extend discussions that the layperson would consider 'philosophical' to the domain of academic philosophy. The conversation on Gibbletish can easily be connected to the Derek Parfit-John Grey-Bernard Williams-David Hume debates on the persistence of personal identity.

And I've already mentioned how one could possibly go about connecting his discussion at the end of WoK to issues in aesthetics.

At the end of the day, fiction and philosophy do have fruitful connections that can be drawn between them. There's a reason why classes entitled 'Fiction and Philosophy' and 'Science Fiction and Philosophy' do exist. While analytic philosophy seems admittedly abstract, in particular, in the case of metaphysics, the very existence and increasing popularity of Applied Philosophy indicates we're trying to make a turn towards connecting our theories and models and concepts with issues in real life, whether with regard to drone warfare, piracy, or even the social organisation of knowledge, or accounts of the good life, virtue (both epistemic and moral) and good art.

 

I think, if there's something I want to really emphasise in this thread, philosophy isn't really its content, and that's a mistake a lot of Year 1s and 2s tend to make. They're too quick to dismiss parts of another field as being 'unphilosophical' and 'unrigorous'. We have a long-standing grudge match against sociology and literature, for instance. Which is, in a way, really sad. Philosophy is about a set of concerns, that's true. We do tend to focus more on normative questions, but that doesn't preclude doing descriptive work.

 

And the upshot for this discussion is that philosophy, even past the normative questions, I think, is about an attitude. It's about using a particular set of analytical tools, a particular way of asking questions and reasoning, as a lens through which to see matters, to clarify concepts, and to gain knowledge. And I think that's both beautiful, and shouldn't be considered to take on such a restricted domain. Not all of us work with analytical models, and questions can be philosophical in virtue of the fact that they function as a starting point for philosophical discussion.

 

My Honours political philosophy class, for instance, began with a discussion of Brave New World and utilitarianism; there is no explicit model, one must draw the connections by one's self. And right now, I'm preparing a presentation on a paper connecting issues in maritime piracy (which one would consider more legal, geographical, or political) to philosophy. It's very difficult, but very rewarding to see all sorts of fruitful connections can be drawn.

 

Well, that's it, guys. I guess I shan't continue to get excited. I just get a bit puzzled when I hear some of the stranger claims made about my field, and I thought I'd just like to give my own input about how we philosophers work [Full disclaimer, I'm just an Honours student, so it's just my perspective, rather than any sort of professional insight, but I hope to go on to do graduate studies, and if I'm very lucky, do this for a living someday!]

 

#philosopherKasout

 

Edit: And of course, philosophy does want to connect to experience. There are entire schools of thought and areas in which lived experience is the primary source of philosophical insight. After all, free-floating analytical models are, to be blunt, extremely unhelpful and often run the risk of being accused of stemming from the infamous 'ivory tower'.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Kasimir