Who is Tarah? Kaladin's wife?

[junior]

I also feel that the way Amaram dealt with Kaladin and the story he concocted was too messy. Unless he plans to off his own men too, I wouldn't be surprised if there are already rumors of the truth. That Amaram is a filthy traitor and he deserves the slave brand on Kaladin's head more than the current wearer. If so, I hope it follows him all the way to the Shattered Plains. It would be more appropriate if Dalinar found out the truth on his own, rather than from Kaladin. If Kaladin have to approach him and ask for help, then it would weaken the gesture when Dalinar provides it. It could go a long way of helping him mend his trauma.

 

Doubtful.  There's a brief comment from one of the bridgemen that suggests that the story is pretty firmly in place that Amaram won the shards.  Though the comment leaves open the possibility that no one's exactly sure how Amaram won them.  The entire army was probably fleeing from the shardbearer during the attack - except for Kaladin's squad.  So likely the only people paying any attention were too far away from the battle to make out the details of who was doing what.  So I suspect that there is exactly zero suspicion that Amaram murdered his way into owning the shards.

 

Kaladin should take back what is rightfully his. If this ends in a challenge, all the more better. Amaram is easy meat.

 

Except that they're not rightfully his.  He didn't want them, and likely still doesn't.  They "rightfully" belong to the heirs of his squad.

 

My heart burns with anger for what Amaram has done. I'm so excited and stoked for the reckoning between these two men.

 

Be careful about this.  We don't know what Amaram's been doing in the meantime.  For all we know, he could be using the shardplate to do great and wonderful things (that was his ostensible excuse for stealing the items to begin with), and it's possible that he'll be Dalinar's biggest ally in the camps.

 

Be *very* careful about what you wish for...

[+eveorjoy she/her]

Be careful about this.  We don't know what Amaram's been doing in the meantime.  For all we know, he could be using the shardplate to do great and wonderful things (that was his ostensible excuse for stealing the items to begin with), and it's possible that he'll be Dalinar's biggest ally in the camps.

 

Be *very* careful about what you wish for...

 

Actually, this is very likely scenario. It fits some previews of WOR out there (not ones from Steelhunt).

 

Also, I imagine Amaram giving Kaladin some advice when he recognizes him. Amaram, or a lacky of his, will point out that Kaladin and his men are in a good place now. If Kaladin begins making claims to things he shouldn't, he could be risking the freedom and lives of a thousand men.

 

That would be an excellent internal conflict. In fact, Kaladin might see Amaram with Dalinar and infer his situation without Amaram ever needing to say a word.

[marianmi]

I would love something like this:

 

Dalinar: "Amaram, this is Kaladin, my new captain of the Cobalt Guards. I've seen him battling a Shardbearer with nothing but a spear... He saved my life that day!"

Amaram: "Erm, yeah, me too... mine too..."

Edited December 17, 2013 by marianmi

[Aethling he/him]

I am not sure that the slave brand would make all that much of a difference.  We have artifacts in the world that turn rocks into food.  I doubt it would be very far beyond reasonable to say there is one that can get rid of scars.

 

He could also be him disappointing someone that had faith in him.  I am still leaning toward her being someone that helped him overcome the loss of his brother.  There could have been some romantic entanglement, but it wouldn't have been a given.  

[hoser he/him]

Doubtful.  ...

 it's possible that he'll be Dalinar's biggest ally in the camps.

...

With allies like Amaram, who needs  ... voidbringers.

[+eveorjoy she/her]

I am not sure that the slave brand would make all that much of a difference.  We have artifacts in the world that turn rocks into food.  I doubt it would be very far beyond reasonable to say there is one that can get rid of scars.

 

He could also be him disappointing someone that had faith in him.  I am still leaning toward her being someone that helped him overcome the loss of his brother.  There could have been some romantic entanglement, but it wouldn't have been a given.  

 

I think Kaladin will be keeping the scars. Jasnah had trouble healing Shallan, and blood is easy to soulcast. If soulcaster could heal regular wounds, they wouldn't need surgeons. Scars are would be ever harder to get rid of because they are already healed flesh.

 

It is possible Tarah wasn't romantic involved with Kaladin, but it is also possible that she was.

[Auri Garvel Xel'iathi he/him]

@junior

Sorry, I can't quote very well when replying on my phone. I think that what Amaram might've done with the shards, good or otherwise, is being used by Sanderson as a contrast to Kaladin's choices. I.e. journey before destination, choosing to do right because it is right as opposed to committing a wrong in the hopes that you can do more right. As such, I believe there will be a sparks simply because their methods are so so fundamentally different even whilst they are attempting to reach the same ends.

And, because Dalinar isbelieved to be a candidate for the Knights Radiant, I can see him learning from the examples of both Amaram and Kaladin and seeing that Kaladin is closer to his preferred way of doing things.

[JoeAgain he/him]

Kaladin hasn't really thought about Tarah much for a romance, especially with how much he thinks of others in his past, and while he thinks several times about future options, she's never one of them. Interestingly, Brandon "randomly" dropped another name, Hav, that at the time sent me flipping back through the book wondering who the heck this person was that I had somehow missed. Given that TWoK was Kaladin's flashback book, and yet we saw nothing of these folks, I wonder if they are just "Ham has a family" flavor.

[+eveorjoy she/her]

Kaladin hasn't really thought about Tarah much for a romance, especially with how much he thinks of others in his past, and while he thinks several times about future options, she's never one of them. Interestingly, Brandon "randomly" dropped another name, Hav, that at the time sent me flipping back through the book wondering who the heck this person was that I had somehow missed. Given that TWoK was Kaladin's flashback book, and yet we saw nothing of these folks, I wonder if they are just "Ham has a family" flavor.

 

Hav was Kaladin's training sergeant.

 

Everyone else from Kaladin's past is explained in relation to Kaladin, even if not in a flashback, except Tarah. Tarah's story has not been told yet, and Sanderson doesn't just drop random names into stories without giving a reason. The fact that so little has been said about her makes me wonder. Kaladin wouldn't be thinking much about someone he loved during WOK because he was dead inside. Remember he needed to save the bridgemen to save himself.

 

Maybe she wasn't his wife, or even girlfriend, but it is possible.

[Arondell]

I would love something like this:

 

Dalinar: "Amaram, this is Kaladin, my new captain of the Cobalt Guards. I've seen him battling a Shardbearer with nothing but a spear... He saved my life that day!"

Amaram: "Erm, yeah, me too... mine too..."

 

That reminds me.  In his new position Kaladin now has an ethical obligation to warn Dalinar about his prior service with Amaram before any difficult situations arise.  Blindsiding your commanding officer about something like this is a great way to get said commanding officer royally pissed off.

[The Rooster he/him]

I would love something like this:

 

Dalinar: "Amaram, this is Kaladin, my new captain of the Cobalt Guards. I've seen him battling a Shardbearer with nothing but a spear... He saved my life that day!"

Amaram: "Erm, yeah, me too... mine too..."

 

 

"My name is Kaladin Stormblessed. You killed my soldiers. Prepare to die."

 

This topic has been thoroughly hijacked... and I LOVE IT!

[Shardbearer he/him]

Yes, but Kaladin still doesn't trust lighteyes, not even Dalinar, at the start of WoR. He's might not be inclined to volunteer that information.

[Aethling he/him]

Well, we already know that Jasnah has her limitations in soulcasting, just see the strawberry incident.  Someone with more training and skill for healing could probably do away with almost any scar or wound.

[+eveorjoy she/her]

That reminds me.  In his new position Kaladin now has an ethical obligation to warn Dalinar about his prior service with Amaram before any difficult situations arise.  Blindsiding your commanding officer about something like this is a great way to get said commanding officer royally pissed off.

 

First off Kaladin is only just beginning to consider trusting Dalinar. He is impressed, but he is also very hurt by lighteyes.

 

Secondly, he has no proof of his story. It is the word of a former slave (Yes those brands still matter) against the word of a well respected, decorated, shardbearer. We know Amaram is a murdering hypocrite, but, in Roshar, the only living people who know what happened are Kaladin, Amaram, and the people loyal to Amaram.  

 

Third Dalinar is not in a very strong position. The other Princes like him, but they think he is nuts and their opinion will only lower as Dalinar starts trying to enforce his new rules. Kaladin is good at reading a situation when he has all the information. Dalinar has enough problems without trying to right injustices he has no proof of. Kaladin may not wish to tell him for that reason.

 

Now if Kaladin is clearly unable to keep his cool around Amaram, Dalinar will most likely ask what's his problem. He will have to explain himself, and he might tell Dalinar part of the story, or all of it depending on how much of Kaladin's trust Dalinar has earned at that point. But unless Dalinar asks, I see no reason for Kaladin to tell him anything. Kaladin can keep his cool if he feels it is for the best.

 

A confrontation between Amaram and Kaladin will happen, but not soon after Amaram arrives at the Shattered Plains, and likely it won't be as simple as Kaladin demanding a duel or Dalinar ordering Amaram to give Kaladin the shards. (Not that Kaladin would accept them. I see Kaladin giving the shards to Moash, for his pride, or Rock, for his people.)

 

Then again, maybe the mystery woman, Tarah, will appear and say she saw the whole thing, proclaiming Kaladin won the shards.

 

Well, we already know that Jasnah has her limitations in soulcasting, just see the strawberry incident.  Someone with more training and skill for healing could probably do away with almost any scar or wound.

 

No they can't. Jasnah is one of the most power soulcasters in all of Roshar and she has been using her powers for years.

 

WOK page 91 - Shallah speaking of what she thought was a fabrel at the time.

Nine out of ten Soulcasters were capable of a few limited transformations: creating water or grain from stone; forming bland, single-roomed buildings out of air or cloth. A greater one, like Jasnah's, could effectuate any transformation. Literally turn any substance into any other one. How it must grate on the ardents that such a powerful, holy relic was in the hands of someone outside the ardentia.

 

So there aren't more powerful Soulcasters out there.

 

Besides, I don't think Soulcasting's main purpose is healing. Lift can heal, but she doesn't use soulcasting to do so.

 

And a scar is already healed. The only way to get rid of a scar is to damage the flesh again. Now perhaps an Edgedancer, like Lift, could heal his scars, but Kaladin isn't going to be meeting any Edgedancers anytime soon.

Edited December 19, 2013 by eveorjoy

[hoser he/him]

Yes! They offer Rock the Shards and he refuses because it is beneath him. 

[+eveorjoy she/her]

Yes! They offer Rock the Shards and he refuses because it is beneath him. 

 

I could see him wanting to take the shards back to one of leaders of his people. However, I think Moash will most likely get them.

 

I think the Tarah topic has been talked out. Thanks for a lively discussion.

[Aethling he/him]

Just because she has  very powerful fabrial does not mean that she is capable of using it to its fullest extent.  She has already admitted as such in the text.  An item capable of turning rocks into food should be able to smooth the skin back over with a skilled medical mind behind it.  Now whether or not it is subtle enough to do so would be a different idea.

[Aether he/him]

An item capable of turning rocks into food should be able to smooth the skin back over with a skilled medical mind behind it.

I fail to see the logic of this phrase. How do you extrapolate surgical capacity from a fabrial designed to make food?

 

Also, it should be noted that Jasnah's fabrial

Is a fake!! (Dum, dum, DUUUUUUHM!!!!)

Her own talent and knowledge should be the only limiting factor.

 

EDIT: Minor grammar.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Aether

[junior]

Kaladin needs to let Dalinar know that there might be sparks between Kaladin and Amaram.  But he doesn't need to say anything further than that.  A simple, "I received this scar while in Amaram's service, and I don't want to talk about the details," should be sufficient.  It would also let Dalinar know that Amaram might not be happy being around Kaladin.

 

Dalinar will probably misunderstand the reasoning (by assuming that Kaladin did something that justified the scar, and that if Amaram recognizes Kaladin then he'll hold the young man in contempt).  But he's also unlikely to pry further unless he suddenly feels that the specific reason is important.

 

The complication, of course, is that if Amaram does recognize Kaladin, then the former's guilty conscience might cause him to disparage Kaladin in Dalinar's presence as a way of attempting to ensure that no one suspects the truth of what happened (which, ironically, is more likely to backfire, given that it would cause people to become more curious about the details behind the scarring).

 

Sorry, I can't quote very well when replying on my phone. I think that what Amaram might've done with the shards, good or otherwise, is being used by Sanderson as a contrast to Kaladin's choices. I.e. journey before destination, choosing to do right because it is right as opposed to committing a wrong in the hopes that you can do more right. As such, I believe there will be a sparks simply because their methods are so so fundamentally different even whilst they are attempting to reach the same ends.

 

Quite likely.  But it's important to keep in mind that so far we've only had Kaladin's rather biased perceptions of Amaram.  It's quite possible that Amaram really does view himself as an honorable man, and generally does try and do the right thing.  And that he keeps feeling forced by pragmatic concerns to do things that he'd rather not (like put the messenger boys in harms way to help win a battle, or slaughter the squad of men who pulled off a miracle and saved his life).  I don't think things will turn out well for him in the end, and at least some of his actions will justify any bad fate that results.  But we need to be cautious about prematurely forming a cheering squad for his eventual demise.

 

I'd still love to see the look on his face if Kaladin ever challenges him.  It would be a richly deserved bit of karma, and Kaladin's already demonstrated once in front of Amaram that a shardblade and shardplate don't make someone immortal.  But that doesn't guarantee that I won't have mixed feelings about the possibility of Amaram's death.

[+eveorjoy she/her]

That reminds me.  In his new position Kaladin now has an ethical obligation to warn Dalinar about his prior service with Amaram before any difficult situations arise.  Blindsiding your commanding officer about something like this is a great way to get said commanding officer royally pissed off.

 

Why would a difficult situation arise?

 

Because Kaladin would want to spear Amaram in the leg? I think Kaladin can control himself.

 

Because Amaram might betray Dalinar? Based on his experience with Sadeas, Dalinar already knows that is possible, that's the reason he only trusts his men and the Bridgemen.

 

In the end Kaladin's issues with Amaram are personal and therefore Kaladin has no obligation to tell Dalinar anything unless he asks.

 

Maybe Dalinar or one of his sons will noticed Kaladin his really pissed off in Amaram presence and then will ask him about it. And yes Kaladin will have to explain is his issue then, but all he will need to say is, "he's the one who sold me into slavery." That explanation would be enough. Now he might tell Dalinar more but that depends on how much he trusts Dalinar when the question is asked. At the end of WOK's he is only just beginning to consider trusting him. Kaladin has a lot of issues to work through before he can ever truly trust a lighteyes and it will take a lot of trust for him to tell a story he has never told anyone yet, not even the bridgemen.

[Natans he/him]

Kaladin is highly suspicious of every lighteye, for sure he "like" Dalinar but he only will tell him what coudn't put him and his men in risk.( like the use of stormlight example).  

 

If i'm Amaram a wouldn't show any emotion or say anything if  encountered Kaladin because this would risk given others lighteyes motive to begin pry to find something worthly to use against me or, at least, to gain leverege(politics).

 

When Amaram see Kaladin he will keep quiet and plan his move according Kaladin reaction, and I bet Kaladin won't openly antagonize Amaram(maybe some sting here or there at begin), because Kaladin aren't a coldblood bastard, but he will look a way to make Amaram pay for what he did. 

 

The Shardplate are secondary, I think that Kaladin could care less about, but maybe he use the fact that he is the true owner of the set to poise himself, a duel as was suggest would be nice, but 1- he can't kill a Shardbearer without other shard set or 2 - He can't use his power without expose himself what are a kind of deadlock.

 

He killed a shard user catching him by suprise, but let's be frank he was poor chance in a fight without using his power.  The plot thicks. Me like =)

Edited December 19, 2013 by Natans

[marianmi]

I think both Kaladin and Amaram will not show anything when they meet. Kaladin has a station now and the resolve to act like it. And Amaram does not want to give others leverage on him.

I don't even think Kaladin will talk not even to Dalinar about Amaram. He's still not trusting the lighteyes, and he might think they will think he is boasting about killing a shardholder. He will probably just tell Dalinar not to trust Amaram, and be careful around him, but not more...

That's my 2c...

[+eveorjoy she/her]

Just because she has  very powerful fabrial does not mean that she is capable of using it to its fullest extent.  She has already admitted as such in the text.  An item capable of turning rocks into food should be able to smooth the skin back over with a skilled medical mind behind it.  Now whether or not it is subtle enough to do so would be a different idea.

 

Then why aren't there soulcasters working in hospitals? Why aren't the soulcasters used to heal people at the camps? They will change the lighteyes dead into stone.Why not heal them when they are alive?

[Aethling he/him]

Economics.  The same reason that armies even today don't have full body protection for each soldier or a surgeon in each unit.  They are continuously throwing away the lives of their soldiers in a stalemate much like WW1.  Why spend the money or effort to heal someone that stands a high likely hood of being killed on the next run.  If Dalinar were to suffer a serious wound, there would probably be several things being used to bring him back to whole.

[Aethling he/him]

I fail to see the logic of this phrase. How do you extrapolate surgical capacity from a fabrial designed to make food?

 

Her own talent and knowledge should be the only limited factor.

Frankly, I can't see how you can't see how they are related.  I doubt she has the required medical knowledge to do it, but that doesn't mean is not possible.  Give Kaladin's father access and some lessons in how a fabrial works, and I imagine you would see some miracles.