Bloodfalcon Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 This is by no means a real theory, but rather a fun thought:I think it would be an interesting plot device if, now that several of the Heralds abandoned their oaths, the Heralds are vulnerable and no longer "respawn" on Roshar. They still have very long lives, but the next time they die, they are kapput. I know there are a lot of different ideas of how the entire Order/Herald/Gem/etc. relations work, but I think it would put a really unique spin on things if their permanent death disconnected their Order from the Surgebinding chart in a way. I'm not sure which scenario I prefer, but it could mean that they cannot use abilities that are a combination of the relating to surges anymore, or something like that. This may put a lot of pressure on some capable main characters to find the Heralds and control them. It would essentially be trying to round up a group of rabid lemmings as they all run for a cliff in insanity (yes, I know the whole lemming thing isn't exactly true, but it provides an image). It wouldn't be my favorite interpenetration of the quote, but the entire "Unite them" sequence for Dalinar could relate to this urgent quest to find the Heralds and get them back on their feet. It seems like all of the Orders/Heralds will be needed for the Everstorm or whatever awaits us at the end of 10 books/years. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Cool Idea have a 1+. Do you think that if this was real someone else would need to become a Herald to restore their order? Can a current Rosharan physically become a Herald? It's been speculated they are not of this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted December 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) Cool Idea have a 1+. Do you think that if this was real someone else would need to become a Herald to restore their order? Can a current Rosharan physically become a Herald? It's been speculated they are not of this world. I haven't put a ton of time into this idea, but my opinion on the origin of that surgebinding chart would say no, they cannot be replaced. My sense of excitement at the idea makes me want to say yes, that would be so fun. I'm not sure, but I would like that a lot if certain characters got promoted to the head of their orders. I'm referring to our main characters. We know it is possible for family members to become Heralds - it's not like it's a super random process apparently- but there is just so much that we don't know, and so much I personally have not sat down and thought out Edited December 12, 2013 by Bloodfalcon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Tanavast in the last WOK vision said that the key are the Radiant, "Say again the immortal words and give back to the man the shards that they once bore" (or something like this) And in the First Dalinar WOR vision, he kind said again that the radiants are the Key. Another thing, Tanavast always show vision of radiants and such, if he wanted to "put together" the heralds, woudn't be more easy show visions of the Heralds ? The heralds are broken, I believe that the radiants are the only chance against the Everstorm =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted December 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Tanavast in the last WOK vision said that the key are the Radiant, "Say again the immortal words and give back to the man the shards that they once bore" (or something like this) And in the First Dalinar WOR vision, he kind said again that the radiants are the Key. Another thing, Tanavast always show vision of radiants and such, if he wanted to "put together" the heralds, woudn't be more easy show visions of the Heralds ? The heralds are broken, I believe that the radiants are the only chance against the Everstorm =) Thanks Natans! If the goal of the visions is the KR, that's great, but it isn't essential to the idea that they Heralds are a physical manifestation of the links between surges and Orders. Still possible, but you are right, it doesn't sound like the Tanavast's focus was on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weebojello Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 It could be the Tanavast's focus isn't on the Heralds because by that time he "knew" that 9 of the 10 betrayed the oathpact. Or rather, are currently choosing to not uphold it. So, the key may be this. The Heralds "hold out" for torture as long as they can while dead. When the last one renounces, they "rebirth" on Roshar and the desolation comes. It's even possible that originally the *only* method to stop a desolation was the Heralds. The Radiants seem to be a relatively "new" addition in that the most recent desolations contained Radiants. The Radiants themselves may be enough to stave off a desolation as champions of Honor itself. Also if Tanavast is correct, in that Odium realized that by *not* having frequent desolations and "laying low" for, well, 4.5 millenia, the existing Heralds would be lost to time, and the Radiants would likely implode. He doesn't really need champions or follow the structured format of the contest between Honor and himself. Rayse has killed Tanavast. Now that he's recovered, he can do a desolation relatively unopposed. Well, imo anyway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted December 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 It could be the Tanavast's focus isn't on the Heralds because by that time he "knew" that 9 of the 10 betrayed the oathpact. Or rather, are currently choosing to not uphold it. So, the key may be this. The Heralds "hold out" for torture as long as they can while dead. When the last one renounces, they "rebirth" on Roshar and the desolation comes. It's even possible that originally the *only* method to stop a desolation was the Heralds. The Radiants seem to be a relatively "new" addition in that the most recent desolations contained Radiants. The Radiants themselves may be enough to stave off a desolation as champions of Honor itself. Also if Tanavast is correct, in that Odium realized that by *not* having frequent desolations and "laying low" for, well, 4.5 millenia, the existing Heralds would be lost to time, and the Radiants would likely implode. He doesn't really need champions or follow the structured format of the contest between Honor and himself. Rayse has killed Tanavast. Now that he's recovered, he can do a desolation relatively unopposed. Well, imo anyway. No, I think you are right. In the prologue there is.... hesitant confidence that the KR can do the deed on their own. It feels half hearted. They certainly were a creation, and I don't think they were THE critical piece. It's very unclear as far as I can see. Natans is under the impression that the Heralds won't be needed for the Everstorm, but I think we are going to end up with a scenario much like the Last Battle from WoT. Everyone needs to be working together or it is just not going to happen. The Heralds are clearly important, or the idea of the Heralds is, so I really hope we see some sort of transformation that brings the old or new Heralds together as well as the KR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 I can't wait to look back on all of this in three months and see how our predictions look when new information is presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 I like this! Upvote! This is by no means a real theory, but rather a fun thought:I think it would be an interesting plot device if, now that several of the Heralds abandoned their oaths, the Heralds are vulnerable and no longer "respawn" on Roshar. They still have very long lives, but the next time they die, they are kapput. I know there are a lot of different ideas of how the entire Order/Herald/Gem/etc. relations work, but I think it would put a really unique spin on things if their permanent death disconnected their Order from the Surgebinding chart in a way. I'm not sure which scenario I prefer, but it could mean that they cannot use abilities that are a combination of the relating to surges anymore, or something like that. This may put a lot of pressure on some capable main characters to find the Heralds and control them. It would essentially be trying to round up a group of rabid lemmings as they all run for a cliff in insanity (yes, I know the whole lemming thing isn't exactly true, but it provides an image). It wouldn't be my favorite interpenetration of the quote, but the entire "Unite them" sequence for Dalinar could relate to this urgent quest to find the Heralds and get them back on their feet. It seems like all of the Orders/Heralds will be needed for the Everstorm or whatever awaits us at the end of 10 books/years. I think the disconnecting the order idea is interesting, although I don't agree w/it. I think the surgebinding magic system exists and the Knights and the Heralds are two distinct independant implementations of it. I have thought that some of the Heralds would be redeemed and that Jezrien may have had a plan. The non-presence of the Heralds in the visions is really interesting. It does suggest that Honor has given up on them. It would still help for Dalinar to know what the real story is with them. Honor could discuss them or provide a vision of the Prelude. I guess Taln will be able to provide Dalinar w/some information. I do like the idea of redeeming some of the Heralds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloom Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 Tanavast in the last WOK vision said that the key are the Radiant, "Say again the immortal words and give back to the man the shards that they once bore" (or something like this) Just to be clear here. Honorblades are a type of Shardblade. I agree that Tanavast was referring to the KR, but this passage does nothing to dismiss the importance of the Heralds. If man is to recover all the Shards they once bore, then it could very well mean the Heralds also have to reclaim their blades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dysphoric Kitten Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 Just to be clear here. Honorblades are a type of Shardblade. I agree that Tanavast was referring to the KR, but this passage does nothing to dismiss the importance of the Heralds. If man is to recover all the Shards they once bore, then it could very well mean the Heralds also have to reclaim their blades. Wait! Whatshername, Baxil's mistress, says she 'might just have to get a shardblade'. That implies she has none and that either Honorblades are different, or she does not have hers. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted December 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 Wait! Whatshername, Baxil's mistress, says she 'might just have to get a shardblade'. That implies she has none and that either Honorblades are different, or she does not have hers. Right? Yes. And I would think that if she has an Honorblade, she is not too worried about getting a normal Shardblade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dysphoric Kitten Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Then we have a new mystery - how could she have lost the blade? Or, maybe she does not allow herself to use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted December 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Then we have a new mystery - how could she have lost the blade? Or, maybe she does not allow herself to use it? I don't think that she is the one Herald who went back to get their Honorblade. Don't know if you saw that post, but there will only be one, and it doesn't sound like it is Shallash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Wait! Whatshername, Baxil's mistress, says she 'might just have to get a shardblade'. That implies she has none and that either Honorblades are different, or she does not have hers. Right? I don't think that she is the one Herald who went back to get their Honorblade. Don't know if you saw that post, but there will only be one, and it doesn't sound like it is Shallash. The one who got their Honorblade back was referred to as "He", so presumably not Shallash. Taln, with his presumed Honorblade in hand, has dark eyes. Baxil's mistress has light eyes. She could be lightweaving the light eyes, as she may have the same powerset as Shallan will have, but she could also have picked up an ex-Radiantblade along the way. I am not sure she wants her associates to know that she has a Shardblade, if indeed she does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dysphoric Kitten Posted December 22, 2013 Report Share Posted December 22, 2013 I don't think that she is the one Herald who went back to get their Honorblade. Don't know if you saw that post, but there will only be one, and it doesn't sound like it is Shallash. Okay, what? The one who got their Honorblade back was referred to as "He", so presumably not Shallash. Taln, with his presumed Honorblade in hand, has dark eyes. Baxil's mistress has light eyes. She could be lightweaving the light eyes, as she may have the same powerset as Shallan will have, but she could also have picked up an ex-Radiantblade along the way. I am not sure she wants her associates to know that she has a Shardblade, if indeed she does. Why do you think her light eyes cannot be natural? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted December 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2013 Okay, what? I was referring to a post that was made recently with a picture of a WOK book that was signed by Brandon. The inscription said one of the Heralds took back their Honorblade, and uses a masculine pronoun, so I don't think it will be Shallash. Sorry, first quote was a bit rushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dysphoric Kitten Posted December 22, 2013 Report Share Posted December 22, 2013 I did not know that... Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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