yankorro - Manticore Rose Chap 7,8

[yankorro]

Forgot to post a topic for this... oops!

[Mandamon he/him]

Aha!  Then I shall post in the correct place...

 

I like that Rose has some more involvement and you've brought Martin back into the picture.  However, I wasn't excited to see the chapter opening with Rose once again traversing the distance and 3 days back to Angeltown.  It feels like we only get a hint of the Manticore, which I assume is the main point of the story, and then get dragged back to Angeltown.

 

Also, that the reporters know about her troubles with the hillfolk seems strange.  If they're that reclusive, how did the tales get back to town before her?  Telling about the police officer brings home that we never saw any response from that incident.  She kneed the officer, and then nothing else happened.

 

Aside from that, the interaction between Rose, Martin, and the Journalists was well done, and got across some good information

 

pg 3: Maxi in a tutu and mascara is kind of creepy.

 

pg 5: Some confusion at the start of Chapter 8.  It's almost like a continuation of Chapter 2, where she's finding a place to sleep.  Also, she rode 3 days back to town, I assume to look for Prince, randomly rescued Maxi, and then left?  I guess she decided not to look for Prince after all?  I agree with Andyk that Rose is sort of aimless.

 

pg 5:  Wait, they're staying here for weeks?  What happened to the manticore search?  Why didn't Rose outfit this place before she went out the first time?

 

pg 7: If Jimmer and Marta's house is near the refuge, and they've been there for weeks, wouldn't they have met already?  Also, I doubt Maxi can pick up (coherent) reading and writing in a matter of a few weeks.  As Andyk says, having him able to read and write would be simpler.

 

This installment had some confusion in terms of plot points and timelines, especially in Chapter 8, but overall I do like that the story is picking up and bit and more things are happening.  I'm more interested now in the next chapter.

[yankorro]

Thanks again Mandamon for your comments. Point taken about the timeline. That's an easy fix though. And the bit about teaching him to read. We'll make it remedial reading classes and leave it at that for believability's sake.

 

Another problem I'm seeing is one of expectations. There is a constant back and forth in the story between the wild and civilization, between the hills and the town, which seems to be bugging people. Anything I can do to make that less problematic for people?

[andyk he/him]

What are you trying to achieve with the back and forth between hills and town? Is it even a deliberate thing, or something that's emerged from other aspects of the story? Knowing that might help us in thinking about making it work.

[yankorro]

Good question...I guess you might say the main function of Angeltown in the story is as an anchor that holds Rose in contact with the rest of human civilization, for better or for worse. (When she finally abandons that anchor is when things get a little loopy...)

[jParker]

I hate to break with tradition, but I feel like I really missed out, like the potential of the pedophilic burlesque was really wasted--not only to show the perversion of civilization, but as an opportunity to learn more about Maxi (e.g. how he behaves). This is honestly one of my big issues with Manticore Rose.

 

It feels like most of the characters are just set pieces in a chase for a Manticore. But we don't really see much of the hunt either. So what we're left with is akin to a holocaust survivor, a shadow. I probably wouldn't have as much as an issue with this if we got either of the two, more character interaction or more cool manticore stuff. 

 

tl;dr Kinda confused. Now that you're doing what we asked (i.e. more action), you're doing what you do less well (slow-paced, vivid world). 

[andyk he/him]

If the point is meant to be that Angeltown is, for better or worse, dragging her back towards civilisation then maybe make that more of a focus in the back and forth. So either she goes back because the wild is getting too much and she needs civilisation, and we get to see it benefit her, or it's something about the town that interrupts her hunt and draws her back. For example, maybe her and Prince have their falling out, but it isn't until someone from Angeltown turns up and says 'you're needed', or a clue leads them back there, that he drags her back. I don't know, I'm mostly just thinking out loud here, as I find that helps me.

 

Though to be honest Angeltown doesn't feel very civilised at the moment, and Rose hasn't been responding well to its more 'civilised' parts, like the policeman. So maybe you need to change the town, or how she's interacting with it, or what it means?

 

Hm, tricky.

 

I think that jParker's point about the burlesque is an example of the problem I have with the town as representing civilisation. Compared with the hospitable way she's being treated by people in the wilderness (initial meeting mix-ups aside), this shows Angeltown as a bad place, civilisation as a warped thing. As jParker says, there's an opportunity to explore that theme and Maxi's character more there, but that runs counter to Angeltown as a civilised anchor.

[yankorro]

 

tl;dr Kinda confused.

 

 

Me too! I'm starting to suspect I should just concentrate on my strengths and work to minimize the importance of my weaknesses here. Looking back it may be true that the tone is a little uneven comparing the later chapters with the first chapters, and that the first chapters snap a little better prose-wise.

 

I think also that some of the problem is with setting, that the aimlessness comes from the geography not being delineated as clearly as it could be. Include a map maybe? :/

 

I will say in defense of Rose's aimlessness that she is an impulsive character by nature. She leaves jail and says: Whelp, guess it's time to go hunt after a manticore! Shows up in Angeltown without arranging a place to stay beforehand. Wakes up at the crack of dawn after just one night desperate to get out of there... I tried at least to show that but I guess maybe it's not on the paper. Either that or the experience of weekly drips and drabs of story is making it hard to get things across.

 

In any case, I've got lots to think about...thanks again for all your assistance!

[Robinski he/him]

A few comments below, but really not as many, for some reason I didn’t feel the need to bang on about not hearing Rose’s thoughts. I think it was because there was not a great deal for her to react to in these chapters. Still, it feels like there is progress. She has quickly formed a bond with Maxi, they have established and base and the hunt is on.

 

Harking back to my earlier comments though, I would like to hear her thinking about Prince and their fall out. Does she hanker after his company and wish the exchange had gone differently? Still not sure what’s going on in that big old melon of hers. I wonder if I'm starting to accept that. Because I don’t understand the significance of the search for the manticore (not being privy to her thoughts), I see the various interactions, with Prince, with the journalists, with the authorities, as better opportunities for interesting conflicts, but these are set aside in favour of the manticore hunt, which feels increasingly like a MacGuffin. If that is the case, I hope we see Prince and/or the other characters back soon.

 

Also, it strikes me now that Prince is almost the only person to have shown any significant emotion so far – if my memory serves (which it doesn’t always).

 

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The hotel clerk can give an answer. His not knowing Prince’s whereabouts is still an answer. (Sorry to be pedantic).

 

‘Milton winked an eye at her’ – is an example of where you sometimes include wording that is redundant. What else would he wink but an eye? I think cutting out surplus words will help things flow better, although it doesn’t happen all that often. I still find the flow and pace comfortable.

 

‘...like a residue of time ill-spent.’ – what an excellent phrase.

 

I'm a bit nonplussed by Rose’s sudden offer to Maxi. The reader isn’t party to the thought process that goes into this decision, so it feels very sudden and unconsidered, perhaps rash.

 

Nice line to end the section, but I'm a bit troubled by your treatment of the policemen, if that’s what they were. I realise that you need them to behave that way for the scene, but their actions and reactions just seemed rather stereotyped – here are some creepy guys here to create a conflict.

 

I was thrown to read that, after the time passing at a fairly steady pace for pretty much the whole time, all of a sudden weeks had passed. Fair enough, I suppose, but I struggle to accept that there was no time to teach the boy to read and write over that time, because they were doing nothing but fixing up the house. I think it would be more reasonable for the two to happen in parallel. Also, I find it hard to believe that they wouldn’t spend some time searching for the manticore – how can Rose resist the urge not to in all that time?

 

How are they surviving for weeks in the desert, what are they doing for food and water. I'm not saying we need the mechanics of hunting and gathering etc., but just a mention, especially in relation to water, which even if gathered in the various receptacles in garden, would soon dry up, surely. (Okay, I see now there’s a nearby creek, and I had forgotten Rose had the crossbow.)

 

I love the bit where Maxi says there’s no question for smell, and Rose’s response. I don’t go along with the questionnaire being out of place, I think it’s a nice way to remind us this is not a historical piece, but that it is a setting that is post high technology. I also think there is a nice touch of humour in the questionnaire recurring now and again.

 

A distance of ten / twelve yards is much closer than Jimmer’s first description sounds like, and the manticore’s behaviour is much more timid than I had expected. At that sort of distance, I'm wondering if it wasn’t more likely to attack him rather than flee.