Honor Blade fact correction

[ddleg]

Hey Guys i keep reading people stating with 100% certainty that HONORBLADES disappear when people bound to them die.  Allow me to state a fact we all know  to be true.  

 

1. During the time of the (Oathpact) when a herald died and went to the equivalent of hell for 5000ish years. The honorblade bound to them would disappear....  

 

It doesn't mean that if someone holding an Honorblade now a days were to  die, that it would disappear...  The fact is that too many things would be different.  They were the heralds and the oathpact was in effect who is to say if a herald died holding a cheeseburger he wouldn't appear with it in his hand 5000+ years later. the you could say cheeseburgers disappear when heralds die....

[name_here]

It's almost certain that they weren't always holding the Honorblades when they died, though. Now, if someone ended up with a Honorblade without being bound to the Oathpact, then it might not disappear on their death, but in the case where this matters the guy is bound to the Oathpact.

[Guest Alaxel]

I get where you're going with this, but I don't agree with some of your generalizations. First, we know that when a Herald dies, his Honorblade disappears. We have no reason to believe that this is no longer true. However, we also don't know what effect the abandonment of the Honorblades had on their bond to the Heralds. Perhaps if a regular person died holding an Honorblade, the Blade would not disappear. This could be because either they wield the Blade but it isn't bonded to them or because, even if they have bonded the Honorblade, they are not a part of the Oathpact and not destined for a vacation in Damnation. Or maybe the Blade would disappear. There are too many variables here. Enough that I think it's important to make the distinction between if a Herald is wielding the Blade, a regular person is wielding it, and who the Blade is linked to.

I do like your mindset though. Reminds me of a Witness in Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land." If you looked out your window and asked a Witness what color your neighbor's house was, they would say something to the effect of, "It appears to be white on the sides we can observe."

Edit: Stupid phone autocorrect/predictive text.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Ookla the Mustachioed

[Shardbearer he/him]

Hey Guys i keep reading people stating with 100% certainty that HONORBLADES disappear when people bound to them die.  Allow me to state a fact we all know  to be true.  

 

1. During the time of the (Oathpact) when a herald died and went to the equivalent of hell for 5000ish years. The honorblade bound to them would disappear....  

 

It doesn't mean that if someone holding an Honorblade now a days were to  die, that it would disappear...  The fact is that too many things would be different.  They were the heralds and the oathpact was in effect who is to say if a herald died holding a cheeseburger he wouldn't appear with it in his hand 5000+ years later. the you could say cheeseburgers disappear when heralds die....

I think it is fairly safe to assume that honorblades disappear when the people bound to them die until we see evidence that this is not true.

[Swimmingly he/him]

Or it just requires an actual death, as opposed to a trip to damnation

[ddleg]

the assumption that they disappear when the wielder dies is based on the fact that they were bound to the heralds who would go to what we would call hell for 5000 years and return with them for the Desolation's (The fact is) We don't KNOW what happens to them when a non-Herald dies while bound to them.   

 

the blade doesn't necessarily make the herald. (However it could be that the blades are similar to Lerasium, and rewrite spiritual DNA)

The point is, "its not proven."

 

you can assume all you want in ether direction however i just wanted to point out there isn't any evidence dictating that the effect would be similar with a normal person.  it could be they only disappeared because of the Oathpact.

[Gloom he/him]

I think it is fairly safe to assume that honorblades disappear when the people bound to them die until we see evidence that this is not true.

 

I only think it is 'safe' to assume that an Honorblade disappears when the Herald bound to it dies until we see evidence to the contrary. I'm barely certain this is safe based on the information provided by Kalak and the fact that Taln appeared armed with his Honorblade on his return. We never actually see a Herald die so lack definitive proof of the actual process.

 

We lack any evidence at all that an Honorblade would even bond to a someone who isn't a Herald. We do have WoB that an Honorblade can be used, but no confirmation that it can be bonded.

 

Dustin

Can a Herald's blade/equipment be um....adopted? I only ask because Dalinar seems to be lacking one and that Herald at the end did kick the bucket in his capital and he's gonna need more than armor when Szeth shows up.

Brandon Sanderson (Goodreads)

Someone who is not himself or herself a Herald can indeed use one of the Honorblades.

 

Even should an Honorblade be capable of being bonded to someone who isn't a Herald, in order to truly bond with that person the Blade would be required to make that person into a Herald. Even supposing this is within the Blades abilities, so long as the original Heralds live, it would either have to sever the link with the initial Herald, or create multiple Heralds for the same ideal. I have seen no evidence thus far to support either argument.

 

Looks like we have a in training here.

[Shardbearer he/him]

the assumption that they disappear when the wielder dies is based on the fact that they were bound to the heralds who would go to what we would call hell for 5000 years and return with them for the Desolation's (The fact is) We don't KNOW what happens to them when a non-Herald dies while bound to them.   

 

the blade doesn't necessarily make the herald. (However it could be that the blades are similar to Lerasium, and rewrite spiritual DNA)

The point is, "its not proven."

 

you can assume all you want in ether direction however i just wanted to point out there isn't any evidence dictating that the effect would be similar with a normal person.  it could be they only disappeared because of the Oathpact.

Good catch, yes I agree that it disappears when the bonded herald dies. I guess I was assuming that the blades wouldn't bond with a non-herald in my earlier post.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

I have seen speculation that Szeth's sword is an Honorblade and I don't know if it has been confirmed by WoB. However, Szeth mentions that the Stone Shamans would recover his blade upon his death, so if it is an Honorblade, there is some distinction in the Blade's behavior between owning it and being linked to the Oathpact through it.

[bartbug he/him]

I always thought it weird that the Stone Shamans would venture out into the rest of Roshar, especially with their fear of stone. But maybe they are able to do some wonky Shin magic to recover it from where ever the blade disappears to after death. 

[Swimmingly he/him]

I always thought it weird that the Stone Shamans would venture out into the rest of Roshar, especially with their fear of stone. But maybe they are able to do some wonky Shin magic to recover it from where ever the blade disappears to after death. 

Or, possibly, the Stone Shamans have a greatly inflated view of their ability to retrieve said sword. There's a difference between the leaders of an isolated hirarchical community say that they'll get something back and actually being able to do it.

[Gloom he/him]

Well, in the event that Szeth is carrying an Honorblade, it's possible that the blade would return to the last place it was held by the Herald it belonged to. Regardless of whether or not this place was in Shinovar, so long as the Stone Shamans know the location, they could recover the blade from that location providing this does occur. We have no evidence to suggest this happens, but we have so little information regarding Honorblades that were basically playing guessing games and largely limiting their abilities to those of Radiant Blades anyways. Of course it's possible that this is all wrong, that Szeth carries a unique blade that doesn't fit into any other classification and that it will slay anyone who isn't a Shin. It's possible that upon Szeths death the blade will sit in the spiritual realm until the Stone Shamans use some hokus pocus to bring it back into the physical, it's possible that they lied to Szeth. It's possible that Szeths blade will appear in Brandons living room upon Szeths death and the Stone Shamans will have to travel to Utah to get it back. Who knows?