TwelfthOfSnackTime he/him Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 After reading SoS recently my imagination took off to speculating where the future of Elendel and Scadrial is going. Now I think at this point everyone is aware of the Southern Scadrial info drop that Harmony muttered about to wax in the coach ride. How the 'others who were almost destroyed' had much better technology and were more aggressive than those in Elendel. With that information and a logical leap using a juxtaposition of Earth history around the same technological time period as Scadrial I'm proposing that within the next 10 to 50 years Scadrial time North and South will meet and there will be a massive war similar to WW1. So I'm asking you readers to further speculate on this idea. Such as what would cause it, what roles would be devised for Allomancers/Feruchemists in a major war scenario, how would our favorites(the North) be able to win, what part would the Set play in it etc... 1
vineyarddawg Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 Given how technologically advanced Sazed seems to imply that the southern Scadrians are compared to the northern Scadrians, I don't know how "competitive" of a war it would be. Unless the southern Scadrians don't really know much about Allomancy and Feruchemy, but that seems kind of unlikely.
TwelfthOfSnackTime he/him Posted October 9, 2015 Author Posted October 9, 2015 Given how technologically advanced Sazed seems to imply that the southern Scadrians are compared to the northern Scadrians, I don't know how "competitive" of a war it would be. Unless the southern Scadrians don't really know much about Allomancy and Feruchemy, but that seems kind of unlikely. They might not have the technology but they definitely have the potential. They are in the Elendel Basin. I'm assuming they have access to way more raw resources than the southern and will be able to catch up fairly quickly once the $h!+ hits the fan. 1
ArchonTremaine Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 it all depensd on how large the gap is, quantity does have a quality all of it's own, but if it's mid 19th century tech vs early 20th? Sorry massed machine guns and artillery beat cannons and early repeaters hollow far to fast for a 'catch up' period. mid 19th vs late 19th? then maybe. 1
king of nowhere Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 don't forget logistics. the southern scadrians are literally on the other side of the planet. they can't wage a large-scale war if they have to transport all the equipment for tens of thousand of kilometers. not unless they are a lot more advanced anyway. even with the tech level oof the current world, waging war at that range is incredibly expensive and inefficent - it can be done, but you need to be extremely more powerful than the defender. then there is also the matter of how much the southern scadrians are willing to suffer to kill the northern guys. the northern guys will fight to the last, since it's a matter of survival (or at least of freedom) for them. the southerners? how many of their youths will they send to die before deciding they don't really want to conquer those faraway lands and thoose people who never did anything wrong to them? in war, commitment counts nearly as much as power; vietnam was much less powerful than america, and took many more casualties, yet it won the war simply because america gave up first. By the way, waging a large war on the other side of an ocean against a people most of your citizens have never heard before is going to cause a lot of dissension among the population. So, I don't know hoow much a war is in the best interest of southern scadrial. 1
TwelfthOfSnackTime he/him Posted October 9, 2015 Author Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) don't forget logistics. the southern scadrians are literally on the other side of the planet. they can't wage a large-scale war if they have to transport all the equipment for tens of thousand of kilometers. not unless they are a lot more advanced anyway. even with the tech level oof the current world, waging war at that range is incredibly expensive and inefficent - it can be done, but you need to be extremely more powerful than the defender. then there is also the matter of how much the southern scadrians are willing to suffer to kill the northern guys. the northern guys will fight to the last, since it's a matter of survival (or at least of freedom) for them. the southerners? how many of their youths will they send to die before deciding they don't really want to conquer those faraway lands and thoose people who never did anything wrong to them? in war, commitment counts nearly as much as power; vietnam was much less powerful than america, and took many more casualties, yet it won the war simply because america gave up first. By the way, waging a large war on the other side of an ocean against a people most of your citizens have never heard before is going to cause a lot of dissension among the population. So, I don't know hoow much a war is in the best interest of southern scadrial. I guess it depends on what is happening in Southern Scadrial. They don't have the benefits of the Basin or naturally occurring Mistings and Ferrings. To them Allomancers and Feruchemists might be a resource that they really want. Not to mention gaining the basin to turn into a Bread Basket to feed their own growing population. As far as waging a protracted war a long way from home, I believe in Alloy of Law the Southern Scadrial hint was a mysterious ship. If we assume that the South has Aviation and Naval capabilities they could just send a Naval strike force with a Aircraft Carrier. I'm willing to bet they don't just send in the Army as soon as they find Elendel, But after scoping the situation I believe they would see that the benefit of taking over outweighs the cost. Edit: Put yourself in the Southern Scadrians shoes. You see a paradise land filled with resources and magic people, but no military to protect it. At least we haven't heard about a Military in Elendel. If they do have one its probably more for show since they haven't needed to fight for anything for 300 years or so. Edited October 9, 2015 by TwelfthOfSnackTime
vineyarddawg Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 To them Allomancers and Feruchemists might be a resource that they really want. Not to mention gaining the basin to turn into a Bread Basket to feed their own growing population. So... perhaps the "power brokers" in the Set might be southern Scadrians? Given that the Set is: 1) kidnapping Mistings (and maybe Ferrings, too, who knows?), and 2) trying to take power in Elendel (by Edwarn's own admission), that would seem to align with those two goals you posit that the southern Scadrians might have. 3
TwelfthOfSnackTime he/him Posted October 9, 2015 Author Posted October 9, 2015 So... perhaps the "power brokers" in the Set might be southern Scadrians? Given that the Set is: 1) kidnapping Mistings (and maybe Ferrings, too, who knows?), and 2) trying to take power in Elendel (by Edwarn's own admission), that would seem to align with those two goals you posit that the southern Scadrians might have. That makes a scary amount of sense. I never thought of the Southern Scadrians being behind the Set. Why take it by force when you can use subterfuge first? 1
vietnamabc Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) That makes a scary amount of sense. I never thought of the Southern Scadrians being behind the Set. Why take it by force when you can use subterfuge first? So the Set kidnapping Allomancer is not about making Inquisitor, it's good old disgusting human trafficking. Allomancer for Aluminum? That can explain how they seems to bounce back so fast after AoL. About full-out WW, I don't think it will be possible, if it happens it will be more like German occupation of France but much more brutal when Allomancer and Feruchemy throw into the mix. Elendel techonology might not full-blown industrial age but they are advanced enough to put out sniper rifles, automobiles, explosives. The only modern thing they lack is landline alothough that will happen soone I think if Aradel want to expand into the Roughs. Edited October 9, 2015 by vietnamabc
Noblehunter Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 If the Southerners do invade I expect it to be more like the initial European expansion overseas where local power groups are co-opted in order to make up for the paucity of the initial force and lack of timely reinforcements. If there is fighting, there's no way to sustain the ammo-use involved in WW1 style warfare. The machines and artillery would shoot themselves dry inside a day. 1
Zathoth Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=979#13 They definitely have the greater technology and they have allomancy for the common man. Feruchemy would probably surprise them, but if there is a war then northern Scadrial wont stand much of a chance.
vineyarddawg Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=979#13 They definitely have the greater technology and they have allomancy for the common man. Feruchemy would probably surprise them, but if there is a war then northern Scadrial wont stand much of a chance. Ooooooo, I somehow missed that WoB from 2013. So, logically drawing from that, we could probably presume they have things that I'm just going to call "Scadrial fabrials" because it sounds cool. That could be pretty useful, too. Having every soldier, or at least your "best" soldiers (because of the scarcity of metal), being protected by a Steel bubble like the one Wax can throw up? Pretty dang useful in a war. Not to mention the potential for having things like a portable copper-cloud fabrial that anybody can take with them anywhere to prevent from being rioted/soothed... that's a big, big advantage, in my opinion. 2
Zathoth Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) Ooooooo, I somehow missed that WoB from 2013. So, logically drawing from that, we could probably presume they have things that I'm just going to call "Scadrial fabrials" because it sounds cool. That could be pretty useful, too. Having every soldier, or at least your "best" soldiers (because of the scarcity of metal), being protected by a Steel bubble like the one Wax can throw up? Pretty dang useful in a war. Not to mention the potential for having things like a portable copper-cloud fabrial that anybody can take with them anywhere to prevent from being rioted/soothed... that's a big, big advantage, in my opinion. They should have something along those lines, of course we dont know how it works, yet. Give soldiers pewter armor (Scadrian Shardplate?), have them run around with allomantic railguns and tractor beams... leecher bullets? Rusts, now I really want to see Mechanical Allomancy XD Edited October 9, 2015 by Morzathoth
king of nowhere Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 If there is fighting, there's no way to sustain the ammo-use involved in WW1 style warfare. The machines and artillery would shoot themselves dry inside a day. yeah, that's what i meant. even an aircraft carrier doesn't have enough bombs to really hurt a city of five millions. unless they have nukes, at least. and with the cost of shipping ammunition and fuel on the other side of the ocean, it's likely those bombs would cost more than the damage they deal. Also, north scadrial may not have an army, but they have a good industrial base, and apparently plennty of weapons aroound, so they can raise one relatively fast if needed. as for mechanical allomancy, wehave no idea how that works. if it means that they have devices like those described, that may as well make a big enough difference.
vineyarddawg Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 The more I think about Scadrial fabrials, the more I think about what an enormous advantage they could be. Here are a few I came up with: - You might be able to create allomantic "dead zones" in any populated area with a copper fabrial, or an "allomantic proximity alarm" around sensitive areas with a bronze fabrial. (Yes, you can do this today in northern Scadrial, but you have to have an allomancer, or a team of allomancers to keep those things up 24/7. With a fabrial, it can be set up in any place by any person who has the requisite training on how to use the fabrial.) - Scadrian Shardplate. 'Nuff said. - You could possibly have the potential to create a "flash-bang" kind of grenade with a tin/nicrosil fabrial that would temporarily blind and deafen (or at least severely disorient) everyone in its range. - I'm sure there are WMD-type potentials as well, though I'm not sure what they would be. Perhaps an "allomantic EMP" of sorts with a Chromium fabrial? And one that has a Stormlight Archive spoiler, so spoiler block for it: Stormlight Spoilers: - Do you remember that archer tower Navani was constructing with fabrials? You could probably do that too with a steel or iron fabrial (with a plate of metal that the fabrial pushes the platform up to/away from). Obviously it wouldn't be for archers, but certainly it could be used for snipers and/or as a lookout tower. 1
DSC01 he/him Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) I didn't get the impression that southern Scadrial would have any magic at all. Feruchemy was always a thing of Terrismen, and Allomancy seems to have had its advent in the Lord Ruler's discovery of lerasium. Unless Sazed made some changes when he ascended, the southern Scadrians shouldn't have access to it. EDIT: Missed the WoB that says otherwise. Never mind. Carry on. Edited October 10, 2015 by DSC01
eltari Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 I didn't get the impression that southern Scadrial would have any magic at all. Feruchemy was always a thing of Terrismen, and Allomancy seems to have had its advent in the Lord Ruler's discovery of lerasium. Unless Sazed made some changes when he ascended, the southern Scadrians shouldn't have access to it. EDIT: Missed the WoB that says otherwise. Never mind. Carry on. There's a WoB that mentions before the Lord Ruler, allomancy existed. Just not in the form that lerasium conveyed. And it was much, much rarer. My guess would be that the Southerns had experience with that, and extrapolated their tech from there.
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