Heralds and the Knights Radiant

[Arook he/him]

So i have been poking around the forums the last couple of days and I have had a hard time pinning down some information so feel free to tell me I'm wrong. 

 

I figure that the Knights radiant were not started by the haralds just that the 2 had parallels in intent and philosophy. The time line as I always saw it Nodohan wrote the way of kings and helped founded the knights radiant during a distant desolation using his teachings and and the teaching from the heralds. Then as the herald returned for each desolation and may have taken control of there respective orders. After the last desolation the oath-pact was broken and honorblades were abandoned. I always thought the remaining Heralds left and inevitably founded the silver kingdoms and lived out a mortal life and died. I never thought of them as ageless figuring their long life was tied to the blades that they abandoned. then the silver kingdoms broke down after the heralds died. soon then after the Radiants abandon the kingdoms which then cut Urithiru off from the world.

 

Lots of gaps still like how/when were the plains shattered 

 

Please if there is evidence to the disprove this please let me know. I keep hearing that people think the heralds are ageless is that something Brandon had reveled? 

 

 

Edit note: crossed out dis proven information

 

Edit note 2 altered per hoser's post: nodohan could  have founded the radiants but shard blade still would have had to have been made by heralds. Shard blades were made to fight thunderclasts. something only heralds would have planned and even had the knowledge to make. 

Edited November 22, 2013 by Arook

[Meg]

I apologize to have to cut wholes in your idea. Because I'm not that a good writer I'll throw out some quotes.

 

 

Orome

This post is for anything info that was gleaned at the recent signing at Forbidden Planet in London.

To start with, The question i asked him was, 'Is Shallash the lady smashing up the art in The Way of Kings?'
Brandon Sanderson

He was apprehensive to say it out loud, but he wrote in my copy of Alloy of Law 'Shallash appears in The Way of Kings'! I shall get a scan of that once i am able, and ill put it up in here. He also said to me 'you'd be surprised at how many of the Heralds appear in the book', so i guess another re-read is in order!

source

emphasizes added

 

Marc Aplin
Okay, the next question we have—I think this one you might have answered before—but have we met all the main point-of-view characters yet? Or, if not, what percentage are we talking?
Brandon Sanderson

You have met almost all of them. Let me do a count... Let's see. The main characters in the book are—in the series—Kaladin, and Dalinar, Adolin, Jasnah, Shallan, and Navani, whom you all met in this book and most of them had viewpoints. Szeth, Taravangian, and Taln. And one of the other Heralds; I'm not going to tell you who that is. But I think you've met...you have, I'm sure, met that person; I know he's in there. And so, I think you've met them all, basically. Taln is the person who shows up in the epilogue.

source and my emphasizes

 

 

Fire Arcadia

How many Heralds appear in The Way of Kings
Brandon Sanderson

More than you might expect. Some have appeared, some have been mentioned but not appeared.

source

 

 

 

These are only a few examples I got from looking through the WoT-Theorybase using the tag "Heralds".

 

I don't want to seem crude but I'll leave you with this.

 

PS: upvote for using "ageless" instead of immortal.

[Arook he/him]

Thank you I had not see that information yet, Very interesting.

[11thorderknight]

That's an interesting WoB regarding one of the other Heralds being a PoV character. Since he had to think for a bit to say whether he was in WoK, it's unlikely to be either Jezrien or Kalak, since their scene is so prominent. And it's not Taln, since we know about him already. And Brandon did say "him". So, that leaves Nalan and Ishar. We know that Nalan is featured in WoK as a small cameo, but I doubt that he'd have introduced him as a bad guy in the interludes in WoR. So....more support for Ishar being the drunk guy at the feast?

[Natans he/him]

I'm not sure if they take charge of the KR, I think that them act with a common goal but in diferent ways.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Natans

[Shardlet he/him]

That's an interesting WoB regarding one of the other Heralds being a PoV character. Since he had to think for a bit to say whether he was in WoK, it's unlikely to be either Jezrien or Kalak, since their scene is so prominent. And it's not Taln, since we know about him already. And Brandon did say "him". So, that leaves Nalan and Ishar. We know that Nalan is featured in WoK as a small cameo, but I doubt that he'd have introduced him as a bad guy in the interludes in WoR. So....more support for Ishar being the drunk guy at the feast?

 

 

Brandon said in an earlier interview that he planned for a Taln book and a book centered on another Herald (I don't think this is still the plan).  Given that, I suspect we will get POV's for at least one other Herald.

[hoser he/him]

It is hard to puzzle these things out from the few snippets we are given.  I would like to gently suggest some edits. 

 

I think the Silver Kingdoms existed before the Heralds packed it in.  According to Jasnah, Urithiru was the center of the Silver Kingdoms, with a throne for each of the kings.  Nohadon had his time for the sword.  Maybe the Silver  Kingdoms were the result.  Basically, I think the Radiants helped establish the Silver Kingdoms while the Heralds weren't around. 

 

Edit note 2: nodohan could not have founded the radiants it had to be the heralds Shard blades were made to fight thunderclasts. something only heralds would have planned.

What?  In the Nohadon vision, we see thunderclasts.  There are other sources of information than the Heralds.  Kaladin learned about the second oath and the properties of the Nahel bond manifested without the Heralds.  Honor was still around also.  I don't agree with this.  I do agree with the section you crossed out that follows. 

the time line as i always saw it Nodohan wrote the way of kings and helped founded the knights radiant during a distant desolation using his teachings and and the teaching from the heralds.

While legend has it that the Heralds led the orders, the prelude shows them operating independently.  So I agree with Natans above and suggest the following be stricken:

took control of there respective orders.

[Arook he/him]

 

 

I think the Silver Kingdoms existed before the Heralds packed it in.  According to Jasnah, Urithiru was the center of the Silver Kingdoms, with a throne for each of the kings.  Nohadon had his time for the sword.  Maybe the Silver  Kingdoms were the result.  Basically, I think the Radiants helped establish the Silver Kingdoms while the Heralds weren't around. 

 you are right it is hard to tell but, the way of kings is almost the only information left from before the last desolation. It is possible that the silver kingdoms existed during the desolations, but all knowledge we have of them is post desolations. Urithiru was the center after the desolation. It could be that all heralds were the leaders of 10 kingdoms and those kingdoms later formed the silver kingdoms. I dont know if WoB has stated any history on the other heralds. 

 

 

 

 

What?  In the Nohadon vision, we see thunderclasts.  There are other sources of information than the Heralds.  Kaladin learned about the second oath and the properties of the Nahel bond manifested without the Heralds.  Honor was still around also.  I don't agree with this.  I do agree with the section you crossed out that follows. 

 

The heralds are honors method of information distribution. That is kind of what their name means. It is possible that before they became radiants they were simply a group of people with shard blades to fight with and then later formed in to a better fighting force by Nohadon. 

 

 

 

While legend has it that the Heralds led the orders, the prelude shows them operating independently. 

 

I don't know that they were operating independently they were both fighting on the same side while being lead by the heralds Just becuase we dont see them interacting with the heralds does not mean they were independent. we only see about a 5 -10 minute section of time after they have won and its not even right after its just soon after.

 

until more evidence is brought forth i think that "took control of the orders" will stand, but i will amend the silver kingdoms you have made a valid point there. 

[hoser he/him]

You may want to have this thread moved to the Stormlight Archive section.  It seems specific to that series and you will likely get more information there.

1.  you are right it is hard to tell but, the way of kings is almost the only information left from before the last desolation. It is possible that the silver kingdoms existed during the desolations, but all knowledge we have of them is post desolations. Urithiru was the center after the desolation. It could be that all heralds were the leaders of 10 kingdoms and those kingdoms later formed the silver kingdoms. I dont know if WoB has stated any history on the other heralds. 

 

2. The heralds are honors method of information distribution. That is kind of what their name means. It is possible that before they became radiants they were simply a group of people with shard blades to fight with and then later formed in to a better fighting force by Nohadon. 

 

3. I don't know that they were operating independently they were both fighting on the same side while being lead by the heralds Just becuase we dont see them interacting with the heralds does not mean they were independent. we only see about a 5 -10 minute section of time after they have won and its not even right after its just soon after.

 

until more evidence is brought forth i think that "took control of the orders" will stand, but i will amend the silver kingdoms you have made a valid point there. 

1. In the Starfall vision, it is apparently the runup to a Desolation.  They talk about Urithiru as existing already.  Nohadon talks in the tWoK (in-world version) about walking from Abamabar to Urithiru.  Natanatan was one of the silver kingdoms and was referenced in the Starfall vision.  There is no evidence that I am aware of supporting the notion that Urithiru and the Silver Kingdoms didn't exist until after the last desolation.  It's your theory, but throwing out all the evidence we have for a completely unsupported conclusion seems sketchy to me. 

 

2. Before the Recreance, there is no evidence that anyone but the Heralds and the Radiants had Shardblades.  In the Nohadon vision, he reviews the leadership of the world and does not mention Shardbearers.  In the Prelude it shows the Radiant as being equipped in a much more powerful way than the other fighters.  If somebody besides the Radiants knew how to make Shardblades, how did the knowledge become lost?  While it isn't proof, I consider the default assumption to be that Shardblades were only available to Heralds before the Radiants formed. 

 

3. You make a good point. We really don't know how the Radiants and the Heralds interacted.  However, your OP states definitively that the Heralds took over the Radiants.  I would recommend that you at least change it to say "may have taken control" rather than "took control".

 

Hoping this helps ...

[Arook he/him]

You may want to have this thread moved to the Stormlight Archive section.  It seems specific to that series and you will likely get more information there.

1. In the Starfall vision, it is apparently the runup to a Desolation.  They talk about Urithiru as existing already.  Nohadon talks in the tWoK (in-world version) about walking from Abamabar to Urithiru.  Natanatan was one of the silver kingdoms and was referenced in the Starfall vision.  There is no evidence that I am aware of supporting the notion that Urithiru and the Silver Kingdoms didn't exist until after the last desolation.  It's your theory, but throwing out all the evidence we have for a completely unsupported conclusion seems sketchy to me. 

 

Your right i"m mixing up facts and clouding the theory. the silver kingdom and the Radiants are not necessarily connected one would most likely have existed before the other.

 

 

 

 

 

2. Before the Recreance, there is no evidence that anyone but the Heralds and the Radiants had Shardblades.  In the Nohadon vision, he reviews the leadership of the world and does not mention Shardbearers.  In the Prelude it shows the Radiant as being equipped in a much more powerful way than the other fighters.  If somebody besides the Radiants knew how to make Shardblades, how did the knowledge become lost?  While it isn't proof, I consider the default assumption to be that Shardblades were only available to Heralds before the Radiants formed. 

 

The knowledge could have become lost simply because the heralds and radiants were the only ones that knew how and they didn't pass that knowledge along.  It could also have been simply that it was so complex that only a small group could do it and maybe the lived in Urithiru when it was lost. 

 

 

 

3. You make a good point. We really don't know how the Radiants and the Heralds interacted.  However, your OP states definitively that the Heralds took over the Radiants.  I would recommend that you at least change it to say "may have taken control" rather than "took control".

 

Hoping this helps ...

I will change that and I have enjoyed this exchange of thoughts very much thank you.