Theory: The Nightwatcher and the Old Magic is the result of Cultivations bitterness and disillusionment

[Talenel]

Has anybody else drawn a conclusion between the curse/boon system and the new synopsis for WoR?

 

"It is the nature of the magic. A broken soul has cracks into which something else can be fit.  Surgebindings, the powers of creation themselves.  They can brace a broken soul; but they can also widen its fissures"

 

There seems to be a distinct give and take thing happening on Roshar. I think it's mentioned in WoK that Syl is taking something from Kaladin, but also giving something back.

[FidesFortuna he/him]

I'm not sure if this had been covered but it seems as if we're focusing on the smaller influence on the individual people that go to the night watcher rather than the cumulative effect of thousands of people participating and propagating the old magic. Perhaps she tries to do good with the individual people she interacts with, but the larger intent is engage with as many people as possible ala the mist sickness from scadrial.

[Isomere]

@paperclip: the old magic could have existed before surgebinding. I believe the two Shards had to work together to create Nahel Spren, it may have been done millenia after their arrival on Roshar. Possibly in response to Odium's arrival.

[AerionBFII he/him]

In Lift's little adventure wyndle refers to her and mother and she says something like 'she doesn't care since he's gone'?

We happen to know that Cultivation and Honor were lovers??

My guess is she is Cultivation

#scholar  

[skaa he/him]

I was doing research on my (still-unfinished) Voidbinding theory yesterday, when I decided to look into the possible ways that the Growth Surge can be corrupted. The first thing to come to mind was the concept of pruning, so I went to Wikipedia to read up on it and learned a few interesting things.

For example, there's a method called coppicing wherein you cut down a young tree several times as it grows in order for the stump to produce numerous shoots. Then there's pollarding, the removal of the upper branches of a tree that eventually leads to thicker foliage. Then there's the natural process of abscission where plants drop off unnecessary parts.

What I'm trying to get at is that maybe the Nightwatcher (in her grief) is using a corrupted version of the Growth Surge. By inflicting damage at a specific part of a person's Spiritweb (the curse), she allows Investiture to seep into the cracks and bloom into something beneficial (the boon). Kind of like how Allomantic Snapping and Hemalurgy works.

On a different note, if in case we find that the Nightwatcher isn't Cultivation (though she probably is), then I'll propose that she's a semi-corrupted female Herald who was devoted to Tanavast. I'm guessing either Vedeledev or Palah, the two Growth Heralds, though I lean towards Vedeledev because she represents the Edgedancers (Wyndle's target Order).

Edited February 20, 2014 by skaa

[b4dave he/him]

It makes sense. Though I am more curious about why Cultivation would choose to work the way she does, assuming her boon/curse gifts are a reaction to Honor's Splintering. I mean, it's a strange thing to do, unless of course her mind is a little unhinged. I don't see the rational step behind "my lover is dead, therefore I'll play a game with the humans and curse them even as I bless them." It almost feels like the circumstances around Honor's Splintering nudged Cultivation's mind towards this specific course of action. Unfortunately, I can't even speculate about the details...

 

Cultivation is to prepare and use something to gardening.

 

Perhaps the boons and "curses" are really just only boons. The man who went for something ( I can't remember what), and who sees the world upside down, we learned about him off hand, and I can't remember where in the book…perhaps he got that so he could fight against wind runners…he would have a perfect view of them as right side up (upside down to us would be right side up to him). I think the curses are only viewed as such because people don't understand why she's doing it, or it seems too odd or random to them, but I definitely think there is a purpose behind it…I think she does it as her way of preparing humanity now that honour is gone.

Edited February 20, 2014 by b4dave

[Swimmingly he/him]

I was doing research on my (still-unfinished) Voidbinding theory yesterday, when I decided to look into the possible ways that the Growth Surge can be corrupted. The first thing to come to mind was the concept of pruning, so I went to Wikipedia to read up on it and learned a few interesting things.

For example, there's a method called coppicing wherein you cut down a young tree several times as it grows in order for the stump to produce numerous shoots. Then there's pollarding, the removal of the upper branches of a tree that eventually leads to thicker foliage. Then there's the natural process of abscission where plants drop off unnecessary parts.

What I'm trying to get at is that maybe the Nightwatcher (in her grief) is using a corrupted version of the Growth Surge. By inflicting damage at a specific part of a person's Spiritweb (the curse), she allows Investiture to seep into the cracks and produce something beneficial (the boon). Kind of like how Allomantic Snapping and Hemalurgy works.

On a different note, if in case we find that the Nightwatcher isn't Cultivation (though she probably is), then I'll propose that she's a semi-corrupted female Herald who was devoted to Tanavast. I'm guessing either Vedeledev or Palah, though I lean towards Vedeledev because she represents the Edgedancers (Wyndle's target Order).

I like this theory very much.

[Arondell]

 

I think the curses are only viewed as such because people don't understand why she's doing it, or it seems too odd or random to them, but I definitely think there is a purpose behind it…I think she does it as her way of preparing humanity now that honour is gone.

 

Actually I have suspected something like this for some time.  Tanavast states that Cultivation is better then him at seeing the future.  I suspect many of the curses have subtle long term effects that go beyond the immediate and obvious short term effects.

 

As a comparison I am reminded of the movie Paycheck.  The protagonist is an engineer that will work on a job with the understanding that at the end his memory will be wiped and he will receive a huge payoff.  After the mind wipe he discovered that he had, for some reason, passed on the huge payout(500 million dollars) and instead sent himself an envelope filled with a bunch of apparently useless items.  A paper clip, stamps, etc...  It turns out though that over the course of the film every one of those "useless" items becomes extremely useful at specific points.  I suspect this is similar to the technique Cultivation is using in whatever her long term strategy is.

[AerionBFII he/him]

I read that she gives what "she thinks you deserve"

At first I thought it would be equivalent exchange the law of the universe but now I just think she gives you karma in a way. There is no way to tell until more is revealed but it doesn't matter how well you phrase the question you still receive a boon and a curse.

I wonder though if this necessary though If even she has the ability to just grant a boon and omit the curse or if the two go hand in hand?

Interesting to see

[DefiantBurrito]

I always immediately go to physically "cultivating" land when I think of cultivation but it's so much more than that. We "cultivate the mind", "cultivate friendships", "cultivate talents".  It's not only about growing things, but growing ourselves, and helping other people grow.  I could see this original "pure" intention becoming slightly twisted and bitter which could result in the curses becoming less about improving and more about punishing individuals.

 

Just want to point out, cultivation doesn't necessarily have to be benevolent.  You can "cultivate" a grudge, for example.  You can "cultivate" a plan.  Planning, plotting, secrets seem consistent with Cultivation to me.  You could "cultivate" other people who happen to be evil.  For example, making Odium more powerful would be more consistent with Cultivation's Intent.

 

Not necessarily advocating that she's doing any of the above, just wanted to try to broaden everyone's view of Cultivation in case that informs more theories.

[AerionBFII he/him]

Just want to point out, cultivation doesn't necessarily have to be benevolent.  You can "cultivate" a grudge, for example.  You can "cultivate" a plan.  Planning, plotting, secrets seem consistent with Cultivation to me.  You could "cultivate" other people who happen to be evil.  For example, making Odium more powerful would be more consistent with Cultivation's Intent.

 

Not necessarily advocating that she's doing any of the above, just wanted to try to broaden everyone's view of Cultivation in case that informs more theories.

Thank you for pointing that out, i didn't think of that in retrospect

An up vote for you!!

[skaa he/him]

Uh-oh. I think I found a snag. Here's a quote from the Way of Kings (the in-universe book that Nohadon wrote):

 

'Yes, I could have traveled quickly. But all men have the same ultimate destination. Whether we find our end in a hallowed sepulcher or a pauper's ditch, all save the Heralds themselves must dine with the Nightwatcher.

 

So there was already a Nightwatcher during Nohadon's time (long before Tanavast's death), and it seems she already had a dark reputation by then. Or could this just be an ancient mythological personification of death that the modern Nightwatcher was named after?

Edited February 23, 2014 by skaa

[Moogle]

I like that quote skaa - it connects the Nightwatcher with a sort of shepherd of the dead. This just further convinces me of a connection between Cultivation and the death rattles and perhaps Voidbinding.

[skaa he/him]

I like that quote skaa - it connects the Nightwatcher with a sort of shepherd of the dead. This just further convinces me of a connection between Cultivation and the death rattles and perhaps Voidbinding.

 

That might actually be the case, Moogle. But why would Cultivation have this dark persona when Honor was still alive? Is this really part of her Intent, and did Honor simply accept her despite this? Or was she somehow working with Odium at this point? This is very troubling.

 

Edit: It occurred to me that just as there is Ruin-based Allomancy (the Seer ability) and Preservation-based Hemalurgy (lerasium spike; purpose still unrevealed), there must also be Honor and Cultivation-based Voidbindings. The Old Magic could simply be using Cultivation's Void, her own contribution to Odium's system, just as she is (probably) the one responsible for the Growth Surge in Honor's system.

 

I wonder what Honor-based Voidbinding looks like.

 

Perhaps more importantly... which Surge is Odium controlling?! 

 

Probably Division.

Edited February 23, 2014 by skaa

[Swimmingly he/him]

Just cause you're the god of death doesn't mean you're evil. Besides, the Nightwatcher could have been mythological before Cultivation took it's mantle.

[Shardlet he/him]

And even that is assuming that the Nightwatcher took on the name "the Nightwatcher" rather than it simply being attributed to her.  It could also simply be a religious construct and have no actual foundation in truth.  I don't see any need for Cultivation (or anyone else in the cosemere) to act in some kind of a grim reaper role or even a final judgement role.  Would the Nightwatcher do this for every world in the cosmere?  If not, who fulfills this role for the other worlds? Sounds like religion in this case.

[traceria she/her]

I'm new, so don't know what parts of the forums you don't have to say "SPOILERS!" or not, so... SPOILERS for WoR below:

 

 

 

I would mention, as someone else alluded to, that just because death is associated with the Nighwatcher, it doesn't necessarily mean she's evil or that death is either.  Death is a very natural and integral part of life and continual progress.  Think about gardening and the part that compost plays.  How do you get compost?  Through death and decay.

 

Does anyone think there might be a connection between the Nightwatcher and Moelach (mentioned in the Diagram), who may or may not be an Unmade by virtue of where he is mentioned in the Diagram?  I don't mean a connection in that they're on the same team, but maybe they play a similar role on opposing sides?

 

 

 

(Edit to add the spoiler note.)

Edited March 28, 2014 by traceria