Prof. question/theory *spoilers*

[lostinthecosmere]

HI

I'm a longer time reader but first time poster. Sorry if I was suppose to this in the introducing myself forum since this is my first time but i just thought is would be more appropriate here.

 

         I just finished reading the book and I was wondering if you guys thought it was possible that the professor was digzone in the past. I suggest this because well he has the ability to make the underground (dig using matter disruption or something like that) and he has the ability to gift his abilities. I assume digzone must possess both these abilities or at least something similar to the dig/matter disruption ability. Also, the professor seems to know intimately how gifting your abilities will affect the one receiving the gifts. Which I say would fit if the reason the diggers went crazy was because digzone was gifting them to much and the epic mental effect causes them to go crazy. Not to mention if he was digzone then he would be in charge of building the underground which would explain why him and tia have such detail maps of the steel catacombs and the rest of underground. 

 

However, there are two obvious things that go against this theory that I can't explain. One is that the tensor/Reckoners seem to make circle holes well the the underground is squared but maybe that has to do with the tensor focusing the professor's power in a particular way, idk. The other one is the bigger problem which is that if he was digzone then he once worked for steelheart which means steelheart would of recognized him.

 

Back to the positive things that go towards the theory. There is also the fact that professor seems to harbor the same hate for steelheart as David (David comments on seeing the same look in his eye) which to me at least suggest they have some past history with each other. 

 

Lastly, I don't remember the book ever saying what happened to digzone after the diggers went crazy. However, they did talk about him in my opinion like he is no longer affecting the city. Which implies to me he is either dead or no longer working for steelheart and I don't remember the book ever mentioning he died. (Sorry ahead time if it did mention what happened to him and I just totally missed it while reading which would render this whole theory/post pointless.

 

So what do you guys think?

 

 

p.s. Sorry if this topic was mentioned before I didn't see it.

[Gloom]

Welcome to the forum.

 

It was brought up, and you summed up the similarities and difference between the Prof. and Digzone pretty well. We didn't get very far because it kept coming back to the the Tensors making circular tunnels, and the fact that SH didn't recognize the Prof., or in the event the Prof. changed his appearance, the Profs. power set. We also couldn't say with absolute certainty that the Prof. wasn't Digzone either, because as you stated, we don't have proof of Digzones death, just that his people went crazy and he disappeared.

[name_here]

Actually, there's also the fact that no one else recognized his powerset either. Davis never explicitly compares the Tensors to the Diggers, and as far as we can tell the witnesses to the Conflux raid didn't recognize his powerset as Digzone. Granted, it's entirely possible that they simply assumed Limelight happened to have a similar powerset, or Steelheart didn't much care whether or not he was Digzone.

[lostinthecosmere]

I admit that I didn't think about no one recognizing his powers. However, in defense of the theory maybe if the professor was digzone he hid the fact that he was a healer and could produce a shield which seems to be common thing to do among the epics so other people wouldn't be fully aware of your capabilities. This might lead people to not connect him to digzone because they never knew about those abilities. Furthermore, maybe no one really knew what digzone's powers look like in action. I suggest this because from what I remember there is no indication that anyone except digzone and the digger that went crazy were privy to how the underground was made. By which I mean I don't think anyone got to watch them make it. So maybe no one really saw digzone use his powers. Plus, the fact that he hit the wall and makes a swords indicates that he can manipulate the matter into didn't shapes or maybe I read that wrong. I will throw out there that maybe the reason why the tensors make circles could be as simple as it is the easiest ways to make tunnels with the professors powers (circles in my mind would be easier to make because they lack all those corners and straight lines that those evil squares have). Thus they would only require of a little bit of the professor's power which vibes well with the professor gifting them only a little of his powers. 

 

On why steelheart didn't recognized him front I will throw something else out there. This might be stretching but maybe steelheart didn't recognized him because he never actually met digzone in person. Hear me out. I don't remember the book saying that they every actually met just that steelheart commissioned him to make the underground with workers. From what I can tell steelheart does not bother himself with mundane tasks he can easily assign to his minions. So maybe he just told his minions that he wants to make an underground city and they should get that epic who makes holes to help and left the rest up to them. Steelheart doesn't seem to bother himself with lesser epics and there is no indication that he thought digzone was anything more then a lesser epic which means he could of thought is wasn't worth his time to personally make digzone build the underground so he just left it up to his people to do. Kind of like the fact that he has lesser epics (illusionist) in his police forces and I doubt he knows all there faces. Another thing that indicates to me that digzone was not high ranking enough for steelhearts attention is that he just disappeared after the workers went crazy. I get the feeling that steelhearts inner circle is a club you don't get to willingly leave. Not to mention that steelheart can be paranoid and if he thought that digzone was very powerful it seems likely that he wouldn't just let him disappear without being able to track his whereabouts. Steelheart like complete control of the situation. Which is why I think digzone was below steelhearts notice.

 

I might be going out on a limb here but I like thinking about all the different possiblilites.

[name_here]

Admittedly, in my read-through I actually did not find any explicit references to Digzone, even though I wondered what exactly the story with the Diggers had been. Still, the Diggers seemed pretty important to Steelheart's government. So I kind of suspect he disappeared to the bottom of the lake when he outlived his usefulness. Admittedly, Steelheart seems to be the type for big public executions, but he's also big on Epic supremacy, so he might not have wanted to openly execute an Epic for simple incompetence.

 

Also, the way the Diggers went insane doesn't seem to fit the pattern for the Epic Effect. They apparently ceased responding to orders and began tunneling randomly instead of getting a god complex. Though if they weren't driven nuts by their powers, that leaves the question of why they did go insane.

[Gloom]

I find it hard to believe that SH would consider the architect or his underground city beneath his notice. Why commission the city to be built in the first place if you have so little interest in it.

 

I believe that Digzone is a literary device. Every time Digzone was brought up it was to introduce a small info dump of information in an interesting and entertaining way. We learned as much about epics and Newcago through Digzone as we did almost any other character.

 

It's still possible that the Prof. is Digzone, but with the information we have available, for every new piece of evidence you present in favor of it, a piece exists that can be used to counter your theory.

[name_here]

I did a quick flip-through of the book. No conclusive counter-evidence, but on re-reading the introduction of the tensors I feel fairly confident in stating that they operate differently from Digzone because from the structure of the conversation I expect Davis would have brought it up if they worked the same way. While it is possible the nature of the Digger's powers was kept strictly secret, Davis is extremely well-informed about Epics in Newcago; if anyone except for the Diggers, Epics, and a special subdivision of Enforcement knows what their powers were, Davis would probably know.

 

I'm not going to consign this to the "impossible" bin, though. The Diggers went nuts relatively early in Newcago's development, so Davis's Epic Encyclopedia was likely far from complete. If we assume that the Diggers' powers were kept secret (semi-plausible, Digzone could have used them to recruit an army of regular people whose gifted powers outmatched lesser Epics for a coup attempt if the details were well known), that Davis did not or could not get the details at the time (reasonably likely; he was younger, less experienced, and had less time than he did for studying Conflux, and we know that profile was far from complete), and that he believed Digzone was most definitely no longer working for Steelheart afterwards and thus didn't bother with retrospective research (this is the trickiest; I do not expect people survive being fired by Steelheart and if there were not a public execution Davis would suspect Steelheart discreetly kept him around), then it is reasonably likely Davis would not recognize the effect.

[Robot Aztec]

Also The tunnels had no dust in them and if it was a secret turnnel then I think nobody would know to take the dust out so that would mean that they were very clean crazy people and that does not make sense crazy people who make the buildings wrong wouldnt remember to sweep up or vaccum up with a broom the dust from the digging so I dont think that professor is digzone.

[Gloom]

SH seemed pretty open minded about doing what needed to be done to keep his city functional. He passed laws to protect his fellow epics from harm, He kept Conflux's captivity quiet so no one would be aware of his treatment, and generally seemed to try to engender an atmosphere to make his lesser epics feel safe in his city. So I don't know what evidence we have to say that Steelheart wouldn't allow epics to leave his service. If he didn't, then he'd basically be telling them that any epic that entered Newcago was his personal slave and would act as an extension of his will. This isn't a very effective way of luring new and useful epics to his city.

[EvilNuff]

...So I don't know what evidence we have to say that Steelheart wouldn't allow epics to leave his service. ...

 

"That concept - serve me or die - would become the foundation of his rule."

 

I would say that indicates a lack of willingness to let epics leave his service.

[Gloom]

I take that differently. I take it as if you are going to live in my city, then you will serve me or die. If you leave my city, then so be it, I can't be bothered to track you across the world and leave my city to fend for itself for how ever long it takes to find you and kill you. Plus, SH may have been powerful, but he wasn't invincible. He knew that, so I don't see him going out of his way to borrow trouble that was no longer a concern.

[EvilNuff]

It isn't Serve me or leave or die...it is serve me or die.  That is pretty un-ambiguous.  I suspect you are just trying to force your opinion on the exiting information despite a rather poor fit.

[Gloom]

Not really. We know that epics lived in Newcago. We know that SH needed other epics, or at least found their services to be of value. We can even assume that he paid them, or at least the important ones. He didn't control minds, and he couldn't be everywhere. I seriously doubt he could leave his city for very long without losing control over it. Yes, his motto is 'Serve me or Die'. You believe that this motto extends to everyone in Newcago, I agree. I don't agree that he can enforce it outside of his center of control and still maintain that control.

 

Does he personally leave his city to track down every citizen of Newcago that leaves? Does he only track down the Epics? Does he do it all himself? Does he have a special team he trusts to kill any epic that leaves his service? Does he trust them? Who are they? Why weren't they mentioned? How does he know where to look? Does he cross the Pacific to track those who relocate to Asia? When does he actually have time to run his city?

 

It's far easier to assume that SH could care less about anyone who leaves his center of control, then it is to believe that he actively pursues a vendetta against those who leave. Those who try to take a piece of what is his, I can absolutely see him crushing beneath his heel. Those who leave? Why should he care?

 

I will take my argument a step further. Do you think that SH is the most powerful Epic in the world? Do you think that he is free to show up in NY city and start tearing down buildings to get to someone who left Newcago? Do you think he would be unopposed? Do you think that it might be possible that if SH did do these sort of things that the Epics in those foreign cities might take umbrage against such an intrusion?

 

I get it. 'Serve me or Die' is the cannon motto, but outside of Newcago it is impractical to enforce.

[Oudeis]

What Gloom said, basically.

 

I'm sure there are cases of stupid Epics turning in their notice and getting incinerated, or trying to leave and getting caught by a hit squad. Prof isn't just smart, he's a genius, and his power is "I burrow underground where no one else can go". I think if you're only "smarter than average" you can prolly find a way to leave where Steelheart's decision is "waste a ton of resources chasing you down," or "just let you go." Obviously, in Steelheart's perfect world, he gets literally everything he wants and can afford to punish the slightest affront. But even Steelheart lives in the (alternate universe) real world, which means sometimes tracking down literally every Epic who tries to escape to punish them is more than his resources can bear.

[EvilNuff]

At one point near the end of the book the team discusses pushing on without knowing Steelheart's weakness or running:

"Either we fight him here, or the Reckoners are finished,"  Prof said.  "We'd spen the rest of our lives running..."

 

Now obviously, Steelheart does not control the world, he cannot hunt down every single person.  However, this quote clearly indicates that (at least the Reckoners believe that...) he can and will hunt down individuals who he feels are high enough priority to be worth his time/attention.

 

The original comment that brought this up was do we or do we not have evidence that Steelheart would allow epics to leave his service?  From the two quotes I have provided it is patently clear that 1) no he does not allow people to leave his service....and 2) he can and will hunt down some sub-set of those who do.  Obviously you are free to read whatever you want into the world but me, I just stick with what the book tells us.

[Oudeis]

At one point near the end of the book the team discusses pushing on without knowing Steelheart's weakness or running:

"Either we fight him here, or the Reckoners are finished,"  Prof said.  "We'd spen the rest of our lives running..."

 

It is expressly stated in the books that they've thrown their hats over the wall. In the movie Captain America, Bucky asked why he doesn't run, and Rogers answer, "Once you start running, they'll never let you stop."

 

David showed them that they're doing nothing. At this point, they didn't think Steelheart had their names or faces. They needed to win, they needed to show people "Epics can be killed, even the biggest ones" or all they'd ever do would be to run. You either face the Epics when you aren't guaranteed victory, or you accept that you'll never be able to do anything but stay at home.

 

That is what the book tells us. Obviously you are free to read whatever you want into selective quotes but me, I'll just still with what's expressly stated.

[name_here]

Well, obviously he can't necessarily hunt down people who make it to another Epic's territory. So if Digzone started running long enough before Steelheart came after him he might have escaped. I did get the impression that the Reckoners expected him to hunt them to the ends of the earth if they backed off, though, since they'd deliberately scattered information that would absolutely confirm it was the Reckoners who were responsible. Certainly they didn't expect to be able to back off, put more work into figuring out his weakness, and come back around for a second try. However, none of the Epics would want to protect them; if Steelheart sent a guy to tell them the Reckoners escaped into their territory, they'd send their version of Enforcement after the Reckoners.

[quietfly]

i don't think that prof is Digzone. mostly b/c even though SH might not have bother with "Lower epics"  tasked to  do jobs.  his leuitenants did. that means  meghan SHOULD have recognized him.

[Oudeis]

i don't think that prof is Digzone. mostly b/c even though SH might not have bother with "Lower epics"  tasked to  do jobs.  his leuitenants did. that means  meghan SHOULD have recognized him.

 

I still think there are too many coincidences for Prof not to  be Digzone, but you've hit on the crux. He can't be, but it seems so implausible that he isn't. He's not Digzone, he's just some other "I can tunnel through solid steel" gifter who happens to have a history with Steelheart. I'm hearing hoofbeats, and someone is telling me it can't be horses, so I guess it must be zebras.

[Gloom]

Eh? Yeah, the Reckoners are a menace to all epics. I'm not saying that SH didn't have resources, or connections. In the case of the Reckoners, I don't doubt he could get trackers on them, but once they were in another High Epics territory, those trackers would almost certainly coordinate with the locals. SH himself, or his top lieutenants most likely wouldn't be welcome to come and go as they please though. Thse reckoners were after a High Epic, and SH at that. I'm pretty sure that if I was a High Epic and found out a group of Reckoners were in my territory and had just taken a shot at another High Epic, I would take the threat seriously and, at the least, look into the matter myself. If they were tracking another epic simply because that epic wasn't happy living under SHs governance, I think they would find their reception a bit frostier.

[MathEpic]

When David asked Prof about his past he told David that he was a high school science teacher when an epic attacked the school.  This happened near the very beginning if I remember correctly.  I suspect that Prof formed the Reckoners as a reaction to the horror of the destruction that he witnessed (and perhaps caused if that theory happens to be correct).

 

I don't think there was ever a time in Prof's life where he would stop what he was doing and work on some large public works project for one of the most tyrannical Epics in the world.

 

Thoughts?

[name_here]

I think it's reasonably likely that, Digzone or not, Prof was the Epic who attacked the school. I assume he spent at least a while acting like a typical Epic, then at some point realized the powers were affecting his mind, stopped using them directly, and created the Reckoners.

 

Come to think of it, we could attempt to confirm or deny this theory by looking into the relative timing of events. If the Reckoners predate the Diggers going nuts, he probably isn't Digzone, while if they're more recent it's reasonably plausible he is. However, I don't think we know anything about when the Reckoners were founded except that it was probably post-Capitulation Act. That was after the Annexation, but probably not more than a year later.