What Miles sees when burning gold

[Gamma Fiend]

Since Miles used his Gold burning so much, I've always wondered what kind of "shadows" or other selfs he'd of seen. Would constantly burning gold and healing make him some sort of Gold savant, and would that effect his "shadows", or was it always seeing those shadows that drove him to become a "bad guy" instead of keeping fighting for the law?

Just a few musings I had real quick. In a pinch for typing time, I'll come back and clarify later if what I wrote is confusing at all.

[Claincy]

I would say that at the least he saw versions of himself on both sides of the law and I would hazard a guess that what he saw had a big impact on his decision to go rogue. Hard to tell exactly what he saw as we still only know a part of his motivations :/

 

I'm pretty certain he wasn't a savant though. He burns gold at one point in the book in a chapter from his perspective and it is strongly implied in that chapter that he burns gold somewhat frequently perhaps, but nowhere near often enough for it to cause the physiological changes that come with being a savant. I think he tended to burn relatively large metalminds to compound a lot at once rather than burning a lot of the time.

[dj26792]

He doesn't burn gold constantly certainly not enough to be a savant.  Compounding healing requires burning f-gold, which is fundamentally different to standard allomantic burning of gold.

 

When Vin tries to burn one of Sazed's metalminds we see that she finds a new and completely separate source to burn, and this isn't linked to burning the original metal.  Although she is unable to actually burn it because it isn't her source this is still pretty clearly showing that compounding a feruchemical charge doesn't involve burning the allomantic metal.

[Kurkistan]

While I agree with you that burning Feruchemical gold is fundamentally different from burning Allomantic gold, Vin actually had to burn Allomantic pewter for a moment before being able to even see the Feruchemical pewter reserve, so Miles most likley has to spend at least a split second burning Allomantic gold every time he compounds.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Shardlet]

I think the metal burns also, but I am inclined to think that you only ever get either the feruchemical effect compounded or the allomantic effect.  Not both at the same time. 

 

@Kurk.  Though, Miles was far more experienced than Vin at compounding and it is his metalmind and store.  Both these together could possibly equate to it being harder for Vin to see the other store.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Shardlet

[Kurkistan]

It wasn't a matter of "oh, now that I've been burning for a while, I can see something else off to the side that was there the whole time." Sazed's Feruchemical pewter didn't register at all before she started burning. Link.

 

Now maybe Miles can see it anyway because it's his store, but I think he'd have to start burning Allomantic gold before the "prompt" to burn Feruchemical gold would appear.

[Shardlet]

IDK, I think we could probably go back and forth on this one for a while without coming to any reasonably sure conclusion.  We need a POV or direct insight from an experienced compounder.  Here's to hoping that we get one in SoS  .

[Kurkistan]

Okay. I think the Vin PoV is pretty solid, but we can wait for something more if you want.

[Moogle]

Okay. I think the Vin PoV is pretty solid, but we can wait for something more if you want.

 

Vin previously doesn't even notice that she's got a new Allomantic metal when Kelsier first tests her. She has to search it out, and it's the same when she's given aluminum. I think her PoV is pretty sketchy in regards to drawing conclusions on Compounding, and the way Brandon describes Compounding doesn't seem like it requires you to use the Allomantic power first. I agree that we could really use a better PoV here.

 

Compounding is where you are able to kind of draw in more power than you should with feruchemy. What’s going on there is you’re actually charging a piece of metal, and then you are burning that metal as a feruchemical charge. What is happening is that the feruchemical charge overwrites the allomantic charge, and so you actually fuel feruchemy with allomancy, is what you are doing. Then if you just get out another piece of metal and store it in, since you’re not drawing the power from yourself, you’re cheating the system, you’re short-circuiting the system a little bit. So you can actually use the power that usually fuels allomancy, to fuel feruchemy, which you can then store in a metalmind, and basically build up these huge reservoirs of it. So what’s going on there is… imagine there’s like, an imprint, a wavelength, so to speak. A beat for an allomantic thing, that when you burn a metal, it says “ok, this is what power we give.” When it’s got that charge, it changes that beat and says, “now we get this power.” And you access a set of feruchemical power. That’s why compounding is so powerful.

[Shardlet]

Hmm.  That quote suggests you can't choose allomantic effect or compounded feruchemical effect.  It sounds like when you burn a charged metalmind (that you have charged) you only can get the compounding effect.  I don't have a problem with that.  If that understanding is correct, then it would give extra light on the Vin POV. 

[Gamma Fiend]

I just think Vin's PoV isn't going to cut it here. Because she's trying to burn Sazed's reserve, not hers. So I don't think we have any first hand experience of anyone burning Feruchemical gold yet.

maybe a couple Wayne chapters in Shadows of Self? (Maybe that's where the title comes from? The Shadows of himself that Wayne sees when burning Gold?)

[Shardlet]

Wayne can't compound though.  He does not have allomantic gold.

[Satsuoni]

Hmm... Vin isn't a Feruchemist, so she wouldn't be able to feel a reserve normally - she has to start burning to feel it. Miles, on the other hand, is, so he always feels a Feruchemical gold reserve (though he cannot access it when it comes from other people). Maybe if he starts tapping (a little), and then starts burning the bit of metal he is already tapping, he bypasses the Allomantic effect completely? Or he could start burning gold and choose not to tap for allomantic effect (as he apparently does once in the book). Or burn for Allomantic gold and then switch to Feruchemical gold by tapping.

[Kurkistan]

Or burn Allomantic gold and switch to burning afGold, with afGold looking different to Miles from normal Feruchemical gold.

[Kadrok]

I wonder if he's ever seen himself in drag...

[Satsuoni]

Maybe... The thing is, I don't think Miles saw more than  a flicker, if that, when compounding - his choice to use gold in the book seems deliberate.  Maybe he just switches too fast for the gold to take hold.

Augur. He usually ignored that side of himself. His Feruchemy was what kept him alive—and these days he hardly noticed even that, save for the faint sense of extra energy to every step he took.

And then there is still a question of what would happen if you burn a metalmind you are tapping from at the time... Though maybe the second source would appear.