20150907 - Roxanne Duncan - General Encounters of the First Kind - part1 (L)

[Robinski he/him]

Okay, so this is my daughter's first serious foray into writing fiction, but don't go easy on her - I know you won't    : o )

It's the first part of a short story. Usual stuff, what worked for you what didn't, etc. etc.

Thanks for reading!

 

(Perhaps I should have said, she's an adult! She's not like 12 or something, not with language like that in my house!!)

Edited September 6, 2015 by Robinski

[Mandamon he/him]

Hello Robinski's daughter!  Is it odd that I can see a family resemblance in the writing?

 

Ha!  Yes, the language is a bit spicy, especially for the ages in this story.  YA usually has protagonists a couple years older than the reader, and I can't really imagine editors letting a 15 year old get their hands on this.

 

There are some notes below on grammerly things, but aside from that, the characters are interesting.  I've read several books with the younger brother twins as a thing, so I'm wondering if any of the same plot elements will come up.

 

However, I don't really have anything yet to drag me into the story.  Mark is, basically, a twit (looking back from one who hasn't seen teenage years in a while), so I'm wondering what will happen to change that.  I assume something with the offending Halloween suit (and I would have to agree with Mark's reaction), but by 5 pages into a short story, I'm ready for at least a hint of what is to come.  There's probably several sections that can be cut back to push the story along faster.

 

Interested to see what happens next.  What percentage of the story is this?

 

 

Notes:

 

pg 2: orange juice thats -> that's

at some point your -> you're

 

pg 3: "slamming the door he narrowly missed the full ashtray that usually sat beside my window"

--a little confused here.  Did the father hit the ashtray, or the door?  I'm trying to visualize it as the father is leaving the room and slamming the door behind him.

 

pg 3: "What are you yelling about?",

--extra comma after the quote.  There's a couple more a few lines down, and some more farther on.

 

pg 3: "where children where "

2nd where = were

[Majestic Fox he/him]

Normally when I’m writing feedback I’ll stop at the end of every page and sling down my thoughts. I didn’t do that with this one, mainly due to the fact it’s well written. The language has a fluid cadence that kept me reading. It’s easy to absorb. Goes straight into your mind with no resistance or confusion. That’s not to say it’s dumbed down either. The sentences are sometimes fairly long and complex, but it casual feel about it, like you’re being spoken to.

I didn’t find the story all that engaging. The only drama there was a bit of conflict between Mark and his family. Having to wear an embarrassing costume might insight more tension for other people, but not for me.

That said, I was never bored. The character has a strong personality, and seems to have a fair intelligence and sensitivity as to what others might be thinking and feeling. There were some well observed moments in there, like the reaction to his dad when his mum sees him watching TV, and the unspoken communication between twins which Mark says he never wanted to be part of, but there’s a sense of alienation brewing around him.

What else? Hmm.. the dialogue was good for the most part, but his dad’s ‘You listen to me boy’ line felt a little unnatural compared to the rest. I think is because it’s a bit of long piece of dialogue – people tend to speak in a much more clipped manner. Also, I feel like I’ve heard the line before. It’s a bit cliché, which may have been the intent but there was nothing that suggested the book was aware of it, if you know what I mean.

Why is it set in Michigan? I hope there’s a good reason for this, or the spirit of that place is conjured in an interesting way.

In summary, it’s a good piece of writing and a promising story. Judging from this first submission I feel like the strength of the story is going to be in the characters – their relationships, insights and the way they change. I hope the plot the compelling as well, but there’s nothing to suggest it’s going to draw me in. Yet. 

[Majestic Fox he/him]

YA usually has protagonists a couple years older than the reader, and I can't really imagine editors letting a 15 year old get their hands on this.

 

 

I disagree (in spite of my complete lack of knowledge about YA editors). I didn't really find it all that edgy. In fact, I suspect most teenagers would find it on the tame side if anything. Guess it depends where you're from. 

[rdpulfer he/him]

Hello Robinski's daughter! Welcome to the madhouse!

 

This is clearly very stream-of-consciousness, which works to its advantage. Still, it does feel a bit meandering, especially when the exposition interrupting the flow. It might be a case of "show, don't tell", as you narrate the main character having to take his brothers trick-or-treating instead of just having him complain about it.

 

What's an annoying little brother voice sound like? Okay, everyone with younger siblings knows (I for one know all too well), but what about the people who don't have younger brothers and sisters? This is a place you should describe what's annoying about their tone.

 

Overall, it's a very strong start, and I'm curious to see where it goes. I am a little worried your character might have a little too strong of personality - he needs to do something which makes the reader care about his character one way or another, so that he's not just a teenager acting out throughout the whole story. I'm hoping that becomes more apparent when he and his brothers go trick-r-treating. 

[Shrike76 he/him]

I really enjoyed this, with only a few things throwing me a little bit out of it.

 

I would have liked an earlier hint that our POV character was male, but it's not critical, and that probably varies widely by reader.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I read the whole thing with a British accent. I was sure that the POV character was from somewhere in the UK right up until I found out they were in Michigan, and then that made me pause. Are they ex-pats or is this just your natural writing or speaking voice coming out?

A few things that really set the accent for me, as things you don't usually hear North Americans use:

 - "the lot of them" - Even when North Americans use this phrase, they usually do it with a mock British accent. Very not local.

 - "Skrillex was my idol of the moment" - at the moment, maybe, but this didn't sound right for Michigan.

 - "Don't be cheeky" - Cheeky doesn't much get used in North America. Neither does "mum".

 - There are others, but no sense pointing everything out if the speaking style turns out to be relevant later in the story.

 

On page two, I assume the ashtray was thrown? That could have been clearer, as I needed to reread it a couple of times to come to that conclusion, absent any other evidence of the fact.

 

P2:

 - "Oh no she This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rulesing didn't" - I think this should at least start its own paragraph, and maybe merge with the following one.

P3:

 - ""i mean it was almost glowing" - the i needs capitalization.

 

I enjoyed the characterization, even though most of the characters seemed pretty stock from just this short sample. The quality of the writing really carried me through and made me want to keep reading until I could see what really sets these people apart (hopefully something does). The dialogue itself was crisp, and I felt the ratio of dialogue to description was spot on. A very fluid read.

 

It would be easy to say that very little happens in this story, but getting absorbed in the character means every little thing happening to the character becomes an event. The reflection on the current situation, the conversation with the father, the ashtray, the little brother, the costume, the mother offering an exorbitant amount to wear the costume. It all works, and I found that it worked very well. That being said, if this is going to be a short story then you've spent four pages setting up character and I haven't identified yet what might be the conflict to be resolved (unless there's something really special about the costume), and it might be getting too late for short fiction.

 

I'd love to see the rest of this story, and have to compliment the fact that the writing itself is about as clean as can be. Very well done.

 

*Edited: Because I seem to have made a mess of the paragraph on accents*

Edited September 9, 2015 by Shrike76

[Mandamon he/him]

I would have liked an earlier hint that our POV character was male, but it's not critical, and that probably varies widely by reader.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I read the whole thing with a British accent (okay in third person, but in . I was sure that the POV character was from somewhere in the UK right up until I found out they were in Michigan, and then that made me pause. Are they ex-pats or is this just your natural writing or speaking voice coming out?

 

I had the same reaction to these two parts, but figured I only noticed it because I know who the author is and where she is from (unless she is living in the US now...).

Edited September 9, 2015 by Mandamon

[Majestic Fox he/him]

I had the same reaction to these two parts, but figured I only noticed it because I know who the author is and where she is from (unless she is living in the US now...).

 

 

Same. 

 

If the Ashley Duncan is the pen name, most people will probably assume the author is male, which is obviously a good thing if writing first person male. 

[Robinski he/him]

Thanks for the comments, much appreciated, (I'm just taking dictation there by the way - Ed.).

 

The main issue seems to be the lack of clues to the direction of the story, which is understandable as it is being discovery written so, while there are general ideas of theme, the specifics are not yet known, but will no doubt be foreshadowed in the edit.

 

The fact that peeps seems to be drawn in by the characters is great news, and hopefully will only be strengthened by the later insertion of foreshadowing / clues.

 

The ashtray is definitely causing mass confusion (I picked this up too; big style - like, huh?! - Ed.). Easy enough to adjust to clarify. Shrike has it right that the ashtray was thrown.

 

The 'English voice' aspect is interesting. Clearly there are some easy fixes to the bits that stick out in terms of correcting phrasing. I am living in Canada for a year. The Michigan setting is somewhat random, but intended to more closely associate with Halloween. The Scottish (and Irish) tradition of 'guising' is apparently recorded as early as 1895 (wiki says), but does not have the place in popular culture that Trick-or-Treat does.

 

Male vs. Female voice - hmm. So in the US, is Ashleigh female and Ashley male? Not so over here. Roxanne is my middle name. Ashley is my first name, so not intended as a male-sounding pen name.

 

It's really encouraging to get all your positive (and negative!) comments about being engaged with the characters. I hope to submit another (middle?) section this coming Monday and maybe the third bit will be the last bit - who knows, I'm discovery here!!

Edited September 9, 2015 by Robinski

[Shrike76 he/him]

The 'English voice' aspect is interesting. Clearly there are some easy fixes to the bits that stick out in terms of correcting phrasing. I am living in Canada for a year. The Michigan setting is somewhat random, but intended to more closely associate with Halloween. The Scottish (and Irish) tradition of 'guising' is apparently recorded as early as 1895 (wiki says), but does not have the place in popular culture that Trick-or-Treat does.

 

It was those few words that I only ever hear from my British/Irish/Scottish-accented friends that cemented the voice. In third person it could probably be gotten away with but in first-person, in the head of a teenager I assume was born and raised in Michigan, it felt out of place. It's definitely an easy tweak with an editor who's knowledgeable in the differences.

 

Male vs. Female voice - hmm. So in the US, is Ashleigh female and Ashley male? Not so over here. Roxanne is my middle name. Ashley is my first name, so not intended as a male-sounding pen name.

 

Both are female. If the writing is first-person and I know the sex of the author (Robinski had specified it was his daughter's submission, so the name was less important to me), then I tend to assume the POV character is the same unless I have information otherwise. I said it wasn't critical because I wasn't sure if it was just a quirk of the way my own reading brain was (possibly faultily) wired. But it stood out so I figured it was worth a mention.

[Robinski he/him]

But it stood out so I figured it was worth a mention.

 

Yup - thanks!

[Kammererite]

Ashley is a gender neutral name. Ashleigh i believe is a female only spelling. That being said i would believe people tend to associate gender neutral names with the gender of people they know with said name. I.E. i know more female Ashley then male so for me i assume its a female. 

 

On to the story

 

As with others, i was thrown by the Protag being male, but that is reader bias based on author name.  In a novel this isn't a problem because most people will have read a 1-2 sentence blurb on the back so they will know the protags name and gender.

 

I really liked your "Voice". i found it engaging and it is what pulled me through the story. 

 

The ashtray confused me but that has been mentioned.

 

The one thing that was jarring to me was when you introduce the mother by her name first. To me that mean he thinks of her as "Julia" not "mom". But that is not how the character thinks of her in the rest of the story.  

 

I missed the "First part" part of the email so when i got to the end I was really confused. Going back over it i don't have any idea what the plot will be (a hint would be nice) but i think it is a solid start to a story and look forward to where it leads.

 

Cheers

[Robinski he/him]

Thanks Kammererite, great comments, very helpful to my girl, I'm sure.

 

I'm currently motivating her with pearls of wisdom from Writing Excuses, and to spend time thinking about the plot before she puts fingers to keyboard

[rohyu he/him]

pg1:

-I mean why should I have to escort these two idiots around town.

   I think you need a ? at the end of this sentence.

- They were cowards the lot of them, 

  I think you should add a coma after cowards.

 

By anti-depressants do you mean SSRI's or something like Benzo's or quaaludes? I'm not sure if the character is young so he thinks SSRI's will be fun (like a kid drinking margarita mix to get drunk), or if he is actually taking drugs that can be 'fun'.

 

pg4:

-End of. 

I think you forgot a word.

 

Like others have said already, nothing much happened, but it was still entertaining throughout for me. It developed the main character well and defined his relationship with the rest of his family. A great set up for a character driven story.

[Shrike76 he/him]

pg4:

-End of. 

I think you forgot a word.

 

I think it was intentional. It was one of those quirks of phrasing that really gave it a UK sound for me.

[Robinski he/him]

I think it was intentional. It was one of those quirks of phrasing that really gave it a UK sound for me.

 

Correct - slang / abbreviation of 'end of discussion'.

[Robinski he/him]

And thank you Rohyu, much appreciated.

 

Ash will not have researched the drug thing, I suspect, but you're right of course to consider the detail, and it would add authenticity to be more specific (in passing). I will mention to her, and you other comments.

 

: o )

[molah]

I haven't read any of the previous replies, so forgive me if there is duplicate stuff.

 

I really liked the voice of the narrator, especially towards the end. But I think the story has a big problem, especially being a short story: There is basically no action and nothing interesting happens. All we see is a family squabbling in a every-days-situation.

I suspect that something interesting is going to happen with the suit that he's supposed to put on. Here I can only recommend what I have learned with my short story Elyse, and what proven writers keep praying when they're talking about short stories: cut to the action. Start in the middle.

 

Now, going into more detail:

The first couple of paragraphs basically felt like an exposition dump. And I was really annoyed not to learn the narrator's name. (There was an opportunity down the road, when his mom talked to him, but instead she said "young man", which was rather old-fashioned and disappointing )

 

Some of the sentences were really long, even for first person narrative. E.g.:

"Like most people my age 'sex, drugs and alcohol' was the motto we lived by, a modern twist on the classic, I know - but just as effective, if not more."

"Nothing to be proud of as far as I could tell, but for some reason it made him feel like the biggest man in town and therefore having a high school dropout as a son was not something he would ever let me forget."

 

I was really surprised to learn he was a boy at the end of the third paragraph. Somehow I assumed this was a girl talking - maybe because the writer is one.

 

When his dad hisses at him he had been drowning out The Eagles with Skrillex before. How can he hear his dad without switching off the music, or taking of his headphones (if we wore any)?

 

This confused me, because I didn't get at first who did what to the ash tray:

""Downstairs. Five minutes", slamming the door he narrowly missed the full ashtray that usually sat beside my window. Instead it ricocheted off the mirror on the back of the door, leaving both the mirror and the ashtray in pieces on the floor."

 

When he got curious about the loud cry we don't get explained why. Was there anything different about it?

This phrase implies that it was his mother who cried out, but then he walks into his brothers room and asks him what was going on: "Now normally I would have ignored such a thing as my brothers were little shits who knew just how to push mommy's buttons." That was really confusing.

 

His mom breaks up the fight between him and his brother without saying a word?

 

There are a lot of line breaks in the dialog that confused me, where the same speaker would talk in two consecutive lines. On the other hand, there were line breaks missing in a lot of places in the description, where things should have been separated into different paragraphs.

 

 

I hope this is not too rough, but honestly, I am not interested in the story so far. However, I like the voice very much. At this point, I have absolutely no idea in which direction this story could go, but if your daughter cut to the chase, I'm sure this would become a great piece.

[molah]

I'm currently motivating her with pearls of wisdom from Writing Excuses, and to spend time thinking about the plot before she puts fingers to keyboard

I'm all up for discovery writing - but then don't submit the first draft right away. At least cut the bad weed.

Edited September 16, 2015 by molah

[Robinski he/him]

Hi Molah, great to hear from you.

 

I'll comment on my girl's behalf, and trust she won't mind (she can rag on me later, as appropriate - hey, it's my log in).

 

You've raised things that various people have, and seems like fair comment to me. I think the reaction has been pretty much consistent, liking the voice, but not sure what the story is. She written on a bit from there and we've talked about story line and foreshadowing and such, so it's all good - a learning experience.

 

Not too harsh, no. Honest reaction is what we're all about - so it's good.

 

Thanks again!