A Word from Brandon

[Oudeis he/him]

Ah. I concede to the 17.

 

However, you are wrong about inefficiency in the system. If you draw out an attribute at high compressions, there is loss. You do not get back the sum of the power. Presumably, the extra power goes into allowing you to be many times your attribute.

 

A Feruchemist can draw upon their metals in increased, compounded qualities, but the faster they do this, the lesser returns they receive.

 

Source. (I will try to find a mention of it in the books. It is my fault for referencing something without quoting it, but the quote you mention is NOT the one I was thinking of.)

 

Sidenote: Even when storing, there are traits you cannot or do not store 100% of, and a full hour every day is a long time to go fully weightless, as an example. Storing 100% of your health for even a few minutes, for example, might be fatal.

[Yata he/him]

Sidenote: Even when storing, there are traits you cannot or do not store 100% of, and a full hour every day is a long time to go fully weightless, as an example. Storing 100% of your health for even a few minutes, for example, might be fatal.

I know and in my calculation I have always use a 50% storage, because is the lower-bound for the feruchemy (But I can't find the reference ).

 

The lesser-return-think is quite odd to me, because of the power-loss in a neutral-end system.

[Oudeis he/him]

It's not power lost, it's power used. Basically, your body isn't equipped to handle sight more than twice its normal, or might, or mental speed. In my head!canon, the extra power you're not getting is being used to "compress" the attribute so you can use it faster.

 

I don't drive, but I believe fuel economy works a similar way. A net volume of fuel will give you a certain amount of force. If you drive slowly, that force translates into a further distance before you must refuel. Or, you can go much faster for shorter periods of time, but at the end of the day you will travel less far before you need to refuel. You're not dropping fuel by the side of the road, you're just using it in a way that's less efficient.

[Moogle]

I think as far as daily life goes that you might counter-intuitively get more use out of Allomancy. The 'storing' bit of Feruchemy is the irksome part. It'd be great to be able to go without sleep... but you aren't really getting that. Healing? Well, you have to be sick for a while. Allomantic pewter alone substitutes (at least to some degree) for Feruchemical pewter, Feruchemical gold, Feruchemical bronze, and Feruchemical brass - and there's no need to store. Copperminds are nice, but we have computers now, which somewhat substitute for it (though obviously it's still great, and Copper Compounding sounds like it gives you perfect recall).

 

Glancing over the powers, what seem most handy that I would use with regularity for Allomancy:

• Pewter
• Pushing/Pulling
• Soothing/Rioting

And for Feruchemy:

• Memory storage
• Weight control (for flying purposes)
• Determination (for motivation purposes)

So... tentatively going with Mistborn/Feruchemical copper. (Assuming Compounding works for copper in the sense that I suspect it does, which it may very well not.) I think this would maximize the use I'd get out of the powers. It is a pity I couldn't grab Feruchemical electrum...

 

A thought that never really comes up: how much money would it cost to be burning pewter 24/7? Is constant Allomancy something only the rich could afford?

[Oudeis he/him]

One pound for $18...

 

We're given very little sense of physically how much actual metal is in a "vial". The best guess we have is when Vin says she will likely burn through five beads in an hour, when she's dragging. (E-reader is dead... looking up stuff in emergency back-up physical copy is not as fast.) I have no interest in performing experiments to determine what size "bead" I can swallow. He does write that she "begins" swallowing the beads, so presumably too big to swallow all five at a gulp. Quick internet search suggests there is not a standard size for "bead of metal".

 

However... 24 hours at 5 beads per hour gives us 120 beads/day if you flare it. From an eyeball of the bar in the picture, I'm gonna roughly estimate that you could make it into at least 12 beads of roughly the size I have in my mind. (This is getting questionably accurate, quick). So, ten bars a day.

 

You can flare, then, for a solid day, at $180 + S/H. I'm sure if it was important, and for bulk orders, you could find something much cheaper. That I know of, we have the foggiest idea of the difference between burnin and flaring a metal. The MAG suggests it's a 4x factor, which frankly I think seems accurate. I'm gonna be conservative and say 2X, so for under a hundred dollars a day, you could burn pewter 24/7. $700/week, $36,525/year. Super expensive, but that's a conservative estimate of 24/7 burning, if you can't find some kind of special deal.

 

In conclusion, you'd almost certainly need to find a way to use pewter to supplement your normal income if you wanted enough money to burn it literally every moment of the day, awake or asleep. But possibly not by TOO much.

[Islington]

Feruchemical Investiture compounding would be absolutely broken. Infinite metal Mistborn is hella crazy. Being able just to use the near infinite Investiture to duralumin blast with everything all the time would be crazy. What would Duralumin Bendalloy/Cadmium even look like? A huge bubble or even MORE time compression? And Duralumin'd Nicrosil would just be rude if you could wipe out whole squads of allomancers with it.

[Grey Knight]

Duraluminum-compounded, steel-compounded, weight-compounded Steelpush.

 

The apocalypse has come.

[Yata he/him]

Duraluminum-compounded, steel-compounded, weight-compounded Steelpush.

 

The apocalypse has come.

I think the Allomancer will simply break himself XD

Edited September 8, 2015 by Yata

[Oudeis he/him]

Upon realizing that with feruchemical gold, especially compounded, I would almost certainly be able to fix my eyesight and not need glasses, I'm changing mine to a definite, mistborn-with-feruchemical-gold.

 

I believe that gold would be able to fully heal my sight, but even if it could only heal the damage done to my eyes from an infection I got as a youth, I'd at least be able to wear contacts.

[natc]

Upon realizing that with feruchemical gold, especially compounded, I would almost certainly be able to fix my eyesight and not need glasses, I'm changing mine to a definite, mistborn-with-feruchemical-gold.

I believe that gold would be able to fully heal my sight, but even if it could only heal the damage done to my eyes from an infection I got as a youth, I'd at least be able to wear contacts.

Unless you perceive your true self as having damaged eyes.

 

WoR Spoilers:

Which Renarin apparently doesn't, so there's hope.

Edited September 8, 2015 by WeiryWriter
this isn't the stormlight forum, stormlight spoilers need to be tagged.

[natc]

Thanks Weiry. Sometimes I walk away and forget which section I'm in. I frequent Cosmere Theories too much . . .

[Dunkum he/him]

Have to go Ferruchemist w/ allomantic gold or nicrosil, depending on what precisely nicrosil investiture does and how it could be used in concert with other ferruchemical abilities.  basically the only allomantic abilities that I think are worth having would be steel, iron, pewter, or tin,  and maybe bendalloy or cadmium, but each of these is overridden by the compounding potential of Gold and (maybe) nicrosil.  beyond that, Feruchemical pewter and Feruchemical tin, though slightly different from their allomantic counterparts, accomplish most of the same things.  plus you dont burn through you metals with ferruchemy, so you would only have to replace the allomantic one (expensive, in my case, but compounding draws the usefulness out a bit).  basically, I could store strength at work with no problem.  just storing a couple percent 8 hours a day 5 days a week would presumably build up.  likewise speed and some senses (dont really need taste or smell most of the day).  I know a couple really good all you can eat type places that would let me make use of bendalloy and get my money's worth, etc. etc.  day to day, it is easy to find times when you could siphon away a bit of most metals, and even the harder ones could be dealt with on a lazy sunday afternoon on occasion.

[killersquirrel59 he/him]

I know we don't have confirmed exactly how Feruchemical nicrosil works. However, it is listed as storing Investiture and widely accepted (at least with current evidence) that it stores it converts said Investiture into a neutral form that can be used to power other forms of Investiture that the user has available. Combining that with the rest of Feruchemy is powerful enough (let's store warmth in Brass then use that power Strength or Speed), but when combined with Allomantic nicrosil for compounding gets so unbelievably stupid as to be ridiculous, as you just generate clean Investiture tenfold out of nothing and can use that to pump up all of your other Feruchemy.

[Yata he/him]

I know we don't have confirmed exactly how Feruchemical nicrosil works. However, it is listed as storing Investiture and widely accepted (at least with current evidence) that it stores it converts said Investiture into a neutral form that can be used to power other forms of Investiture that the user has available. Combining that with the rest of Feruchemy is powerful enough (let's store warmth in Brass then use that power Strength or Speed), but when combined with Allomantic nicrosil for compounding gets so unbelievably stupid as to be ridiculous, as you just generate clean Investiture tenfold out of nothing and can use that to pump up all of your other Feruchemy.

I think you are wrong on the Feruchemical use of Nicrosil.

You must store a pre-existence Investiture. When you use a metalmind, you obtain the Stored Attribute, not Investiture.

In my own mind, a Nicrosil Ferring could store for examples: Stormlight, Preservatio/Ruin Mist, Breath (useless) and similar form.

But he must have a way to access to this Investiture (be a Surgebinder-squire, Harmony send to you the mist,ecc..).

Edited September 10, 2015 by Yata

[Oudeis he/him]

It is listed as storing Investiture and widely accepted (at least with current evidence) that it stores it converts said Investiture into a neutral form that can be used to power other forms of Investiture that the user has available.

 

I don't think this is actually "widely accepted", not here on 17th Shard, anyway. I think what's "widely accepted" is that we know tantalizingly little for certain, and that almost anything is possible. This could be how it works, though it was only made up for the MAG. However, given that one of the Sanderson Laws is that limitations are more interesting than powers, I would personally be surprised if it was quite as simple; I imagine that if nicrosil does have such utility, it will be accompanied by restrictions we don't yet know.

 

I could, of course, be wrong. Because we don't know enough about nicrosil to know anything for certain.

[Dunkum he/him]

My immediate guess on Nicrosil is that the main limitation would be that it is hard o convert "pure investiture" into something you can use.  Hoid could almost certainly do it, and probably most of the worldhoppers, but for the average scadrian, I imagine it would be exceptionally difficult to actually convert the stored investiture into something more useful (like a different stored attribute) or converting it to power allomancy.

[Zathoth]

Would Nicroburst-Feruchmist really be as powerful as we imagine it though? If it works as we are theorizing it does you would still need to burn nicrosil to store your metalminds. Nicrosil doesnt seem like it is all that common, at least not at the moment.

 

Anyway I am agreeing with the ones who doubt it would work the same way it does in the MAG, I have no idea how it would work though.

 

A Pewterarm-Feruchemist would be pretty powerful. They can compound their pewter and store their steel and gold minds with the speed and health they get from the pewter. And possibly their bronze minds...

 

Anyway Ive decided, Im going Mistborn-Sparker.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Morzathoth

[Yata he/him]

Would Nicroburst-Feruchmist really be as powerful as we imagine it though? If it works as we are theorizing it does you would still need to burn nicrosil to store your metalminds. Nicrosil doesnt seem like it is all that common, at least not at the moment.

 

And we don't know how much of Investiture a piece of Nicrosil could held. The Investiture I think is much more concentrate than a Stored Attribute (Es. the stormlight in a gem is capable of regrow a piece of arm. How much power you have to use from a goldmind for this to happen ?).

[Zathoth]

And we don't know how much of Investiture a piece of Nicrosil could held. The Investiture I think is much more concentrate than a Stored Attribute (Es. the stormlight in a gem is capable of regrow a piece of arm. How much power you have to use from a goldmind for this to happen ?).

The spheres are no bigger than a thumbnail though, they can keep a lot of investiture.

 

Anyway that is a good question, Wayne mentions that regrowing fingers is a pain, but Lord Ruler is pretty much immortal from just one bracelet... one bracelet that was apparently both atium and gold...

[Yata he/him]

The spheres are no bigger than a thumbnail though, they can keep a lot of investiture.

 

Anyway that is a good question, Wayne mentions that regrowing fingers is a pain, but Lord Ruler is pretty much immortal from just one bracelet... one bracelet that was apparently both atium and gold...

I always though that TLR had one "atiummind" but a lot of other metalminds between his jewels and clothes.

[natc]

The spheres are no bigger than a thumbnail though, they can keep a lot of investiture.

Anyway that is a good question, Wayne mentions that regrowing fingers is a pain, but Lord Ruler is pretty much immortal from just one bracelet... one bracelet that was apparently both atium and gold...

It's a pain, because how long would you have to store at as fast a rate as you'd dare to be able to accelerate bodily regeneration to a degree that can regrow lost members? Resealing wounds is one thing, but you're talking about creating massive amounts of biomass from nothing.

I don't believe we actually have a known confirmed case of a metalmind reaching full capacity. Sazed had multiple copper bracers, but that might just be for purposes of organizing the contents for all we know, plus they hold centuries worth of research, and the memories are put back in relatively quickly, not getting used up like health.

Wayne probably gets maybe a week or two sick in bed tops if he's lucky enough to not have work to do with Wax. Weakening yourself too much while on the move is too risky except in emergencies where you absolutely expect a need to heal wounds relatively soon.

[Oudeis he/him]

Yeah, I've always gotten the impression (and I could swear it was confirmed in-text) that metalminds can be tiny and hold impressive amounts. We know a stud earring is enough to hold at least a portion of an allomantic bronze charge. We know the barest pinch of steel dust can burn for twenty minutes or more. I believe feruchemical storage is similar. I think bracelets are used more because too-small a piece of metal is difficult to wear, less than "it takes a full bracelet to hold this charge." Wax's metalminds hold years of weight. The limiting factor tends to be more, exactly how much time can you spend storing how much of the attribute, rather than trying to find a large-enough "battery".

 

Anyone know if this is something someone actually mentions in the book?

[Yata he/him]

 

Anyone know if this is something someone actually mentions in the book?

In the Final Empire, Sazed stated that a little piece of pewter (he swallowed it) could held only a few Feruchemical Charge.

Anyway I think that Feruchemical charge and Hemalurgic charge use different scale.

In Feruchemy you had to convert Energy/matter to Investiture and the metalmind build-up its Investiture and probably is more easy to saturate it.

In Hemalurgy, the charge are a piece of Structured Investiture (Spirit Web) and probably there isn't  a match: powerfull-donor--> bigger spirit web.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Yata

[Oudeis he/him]

Unless your teacher is an Inquisitor, brass allomancy isn't mind control... exactly which emotion would you Soothe so that the teacher would never think to himself in your absence that it's weird he keeps telling you you don't need to do any homework?